Chat with California Cook columnist Russ Parsons

2007-11-01 13:02:17.0 Russ Parsons: Hey everyone and welcome back to the food chat. I’ve got to tell you, I can’t remember the last time I got as excited about a cooking technique as I was over that salt-roasting I wrote about yesterday. It’s completely simple and the food is really remarkable. If you’ve got questions about that or anything else food or cooking related, this is the spot to be!

2007-11-01 13:02:21.0 food4fun: Hey Russ, what made you want to write about salt roasting?

2007-11-01 13:02:23.0 food4fun: And what are you gonna write about next?

2007-11-01 13:05:00.0 Russ Parsons: hiya food4fun: the first thing that got me intrigued was that dish I had at Providence. It was so amazing and when I asked Michael about it, it reminded me that I’d read about it before--it’s one way to roast big piece of beef, and there are similar things done in Chinese cooking with chicken. but i thought it might be pretty complicated, so i put it off for a week or two. then the first time i tried it, i realized it was so incredibly simple and the results were so incredibly good, i had to look into it further. as for what’s next .... what was yesterday? do you know what halloween means in food writer land? it means there’s only 3 weeks to Thanksgiving. and 7 weeks to Christmas. this time of year is pretty programmed. no matter how often you write about it, people still want more ideas about holiday meals. and who can blame them? we’ve got some great stuff coming up.

2007-11-01 13:05:22.0 Ed Sails: Hi Russ, I did enjoy the salt roasting article. Is the cooking time the only way to judge doneness?

2007-11-01 13:06:33.0 amy: At long last, a use for all that rock salt my dh has been stockpiling!

2007-11-01 13:06:52.0 Ed Sails: It seems when you talked about 5 degree increments between medium rare etc., it would be really hard to judge.

2007-11-01 13:07:21.0 Russ Parsons: the timing on these is pretty exact. the test kitchen checked them all out. with fish, that’s pretty much the only way. with pork, you can easily penetrate the crust with an instant-read thermometer without messing it up. lobster is somewhere in the middle. to get the timing, i used a thermometer i’ve got where the temperature probe is connected to a digital readout by a cable. so i buried the probe in the lobster, coated everything with salt and then roasted to 150 degrees (a good doneness point for lobster). Then I re-tested it to make sure the timing was right.

2007-11-01 13:07:34.0 Ed Sails: Hi Russ, good to chat with you again. I have a few thermometer questions. I know you like instant read thermometers (I have 2). My questions are: Id it a problem with roasts etc. if you prick it multiple times with an instant read thermometer? Doesn’t the juice flow out? Also, what do you think of the remote thermometers, especially the wireless ones. I need something that would work with a rotisserie. Any you’d recommend?

2007-11-01 13:08:13.0 Russ Parsons: re: the rock salt: were you expecting snow one of these days? rock salt works, but i don’t think it’s quite as good as kosher salt. when you add the water, it’s slushier. but i did test the potatos with the rock salt and it worked fine.

2007-11-01 13:10:59.0 Russ Parsons: ed, about the thermometer, i’ll try to take these in order: at that end of the roasting spectrum, temperature goes up about a degree a minute, so a 5-degree swing is about 5 minutes. it’s enough to make a difference, but not crucial. 10 degrees is more like crucial. it’s not a problem to test a couple of times, but remember that degree-a-minute rule and don’t be running in there every 2 minutes. Also, I have one of those remote thermometers and, truthfully, i’m not nuts about it. as i recall, you can’t set a specific temperature, but you have to set it according to what they think the differen doneness points are ... and i rarely agree. but they are about the best solution for a rotisserie. still, i find when i do stuff on the spit, i just go by look and then verify with the instant-read.

2007-11-01 13:11:05.0 amy: no he had it for the ice cream machine. Using this technique with veggies, does it work best with root veggies? I know you said you tried it with pears...

2007-11-01 13:12:03.0 Russ Parsons: i think i lost part of your note amy. i only tried this with potatoes and it worked great. i didn’t try it with carrots or any other root vegetable. but that would be an interesting exploration.

2007-11-01 13:14:03.0 amy: Last night I made your steamed eggplant salad. I liked it alot. Mydh didn’t warm to cold eggplant. Just now I MW’ed the leftovers and it tasted great.

2007-11-01 13:15:05.0 Russ Parsons: i think that would be good warm, too. eggplant does have a distinctive texture--i’m not sure anything else shares it. it’s very soft and moist and i guess maybe that takes some getting used to when it’s cold.

2007-11-01 13:15:59.0 Ed Sails: I know it’s been popular to salt-roast prime rib. What’s your experience with that?

2007-11-01 13:17:34.0 Russ Parsons: salt-roasting prime rib works really, really well, too. it’s pretty easy to find a good recipe for that on the internet. Also, I heard this morning from my friend Paula Wolfert who has been roasting things on a bed of salt--not covered. she says chicken comes out with a really crisp skin that way. the only thing i can figure is that the salt absorbs the moisture out of the oven (food gives off steam when it’s cooking). but if Paula says it, I believe it. She’s a great cook.

2007-11-01 13:17:44.0 amy: My newly wed daughter has been designated the 2 stuffing provider this Thanksgiving. One of the stuffings will be cornbread. She wants an idea for the second one. No oysters, please!

2007-11-01 13:19:28.0 Russ Parsons: Oh, there’s a world of stuffings. The one my family keeps asking for I make with smoked sausage (kielbasa), sauteed with mustard greens and folded into bread cubes. i also developed one for this year (it’ll run week after next) with leeks, mushrooms and walnuts that was really good. The trick is: the bread is bland and is there to absorb turkey juice. basically, anything you can think of that would go with turkey will go in a stuffing.

2007-11-01 13:20:37.0 amy: I have been pushing apples! You never hear of cranberries in stuffing!

2007-11-01 13:21:32.0 Russ Parsons: That’s true amy, you don’t hear about cranberries in stuffing. there may be a good reason for that, i’m not sure. i like cranberries with dark meat, but i do find that they overpower the white meat. of course, that rarely stops me from mixing them.

2007-11-01 13:22:01.0 Administrator2: Speaking of Thanksgiving, do you have any tips for really great mashed potatoes? (Garlicky, preferably.) Do I need a potato ricer?

2007-11-01 13:24:43.0 Russ Parsons: A potato ricer is the best thing ... and they’re not much --you can usually find them for under $25. There are a couple of keys to making great mashed potatoes. first, i ought to make clear that there are definitely two distinct schools of mashed potatoes: there’s the lumpy ones (sometimes they’re called smashed these days) and the silky ones. both are terrific. for the silky ones, i like to use starchy potatoes--russetts--that have been simmered in their jackets until they’re tender. when they’ve cooled just enough you can handle them, peel them and rice them into a pot. Put the pot over low heat and stir until it makes a puree and stops steaming. Beat in a LOT of butter and a little warm milk. For the smashed ones, you can use a semi-starchy potatoe like yukon gold. do the same thing, but cut it in cubes. With this one, you don’t want to use as much butter, mostly hot milk.

2007-11-01 13:25:25.0 Russ Parsons: Whatever you do, DON’T make mashed potatoes of either kind in a food processor or mixer. the mechanical action is too violent ... it works up the protein and the potatoes get really gluey and nasty.

2007-11-01 13:26:03.0 Administrator2: Thank you Russ! Now I just have to decide which mashed potato camp I fall in. Maybe I’ll do both. :)

2007-11-01 13:26:50.0 Russ Parsons: the silky ones are incredibly rich. you want just a little of them and y ou don’t want to serve them with gravy. think of them more as a vegetable puree than as a starch accompaniment to a meat.

2007-11-01 13:27:27.0 Administrator2: No gravy?! I think you’ve just made my decision a whole lot easier...

2007-11-01 13:27:50.0 Russ Parsons: that’s kind of what i thought!

2007-11-01 13:27:58.0 Administrator2: Haha, you are onto me.

2007-11-01 13:28:56.0 Russ Parsons: what are traditional thanksgiving dishes for the rest of you. let’s play a game: what is the one thing that CAN’T be left off the thanksgiving menu (turkey aside).

2007-11-01 13:29:46.0 Michael: Definitely stuffing.

2007-11-01 13:30:12.0 amy: obviously, sweet potatoes! However, I find it a REAL turnoff if they are mucked up with marshmallows!

2007-11-01 13:30:14.0 Russ Parsons: c’mon michael, more specific: what kind of stuffing?

2007-11-01 13:30:22.0 Ed Sails: With me......besides gravy and stuffing....it’s become a tradition to make butternut squash with ginger soup. I’ve done it for 5 years now.

2007-11-01 13:30:46.0 food4fun: I know cranberry sauce is a big tradition, but I have NEVER liked the taste of it. Then again, I grew up with that horrible canned stuff.

2007-11-01 13:30:57.0 Russ Parsons: that’s a great combination. do you use powdered ginger, or fresh? i can see it either way.

2007-11-01 13:31:09.0 Ed Sails: only fresh

2007-11-01 13:31:57.0 Russ Parsons: i still serve my grandmother’s cranberry sauce. it’s more like a cranberry chutney, really, without the spice (she was from ohio): cook cranberries in a sugar syrup with cinnamon and cloves until teh berries start to pop. set it aside for 2-3 days in the fridge to let the flavors meld. really terrific.

2007-11-01 13:32:02.0 Ed Sails: It’s so easy to find either fresh or minced ginger in jars here-------no reason to buy anything else

2007-11-01 13:32:49.0 Michael: My mom makes a cornbread stuffing (I think because she went to school in the South). She puts sauteed mushrooms, onions, celery and garlic, along with a lot of rich chicken broth in it. It’s a wet stuffing. I’ve adapted it for vegetarians by using a rich vegetable and mushroom broth and sage and thyme.

2007-11-01 13:33:06.0 Russ Parsons: not so fast there ed, fresh isn’t always better. powdered ginger has a different flavor ... it’s the ginger flavor iyou get in pumpkin pie

2007-11-01 13:33:11.0 food4fun: Really? Man, if I could bust my family out of their canned-cranberry sauce rut, I’d be much happier come Thanksgiving!

2007-11-01 13:33:26.0 Ed Sails: I have also started brining the turkey.........maybe that’s the last 3 years now. And since my 20’s, it’s been traditional that the cook gets to steal all the crispy skin!

2007-11-01 13:33:33.0 amy: Recently for the Canadian Thanksgiving I did Susan Stanberg’s Cranberry Relish. Fresh cranberries, sour cream, horseradish.

2007-11-01 13:33:54.0 Russ Parsons: That sounds great Michael. I went to school in the south and was indoctrinated into the art of cornbread stuffing, too. it’s a very different flavor. forget what i said earlier about the bread being bland. cornbread definitely is not.

2007-11-01 13:33:56.0 food4fun: Horseradish?!

2007-11-01 13:34:33.0 amy: Horseradish yes Just a little. I had made it myself.

2007-11-01 13:34:59.0 Russ Parsons: hey ed, this year try salting the turkey. i did that last year and it was terrific. use about 1 tablespoon of salt for every 5 pounds of turkey. sprinkle it over the bird, cocnentrating it on teh thickest parts, then put the bird in a bag in the fridge for 2-3 days. take it out of the bag the day before and leave it refrigerated for a day to dry the skin. it’s really terrific.

2007-11-01 13:35:14.0 Michael: Russ: actually on that note, what do you put into cornbread stuffing? Do you still use savory ingredients like sausage with cornbread? Or do you use more herbs and vegetables?

2007-11-01 13:35:17.0 Russ Parsons: i’ve always thought of the susan stamberg relish as a central european flavor. i really like it, too.

2007-11-01 13:35:18.0 food4fun: Wow, I would never have thought to combine those two flavors!

2007-11-01 13:35:28.0 Russ Parsons: (though not, of course, as much as my grandma’s)

2007-11-01 13:35:43.0 Ed Sails: No dried herbs, pepper or anything...just salt?

2007-11-01 13:36:00.0 Russ Parsons: sausage would be good with cornbread stuffing, but otherwise, i’d really let the flavorings stay pretty quiet. the cornbread is assertive enough.

2007-11-01 13:36:20.0 amy: Here is the link to the recipe:https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4176014

2007-11-01 13:36:44.0 Russ Parsons: hey ed, herbs, spices aren’t necessary. but i did do the same thign with quail this summer, grinding the salt with some fresh rosemary and it was really terrific.

2007-11-01 13:36:49.0 food4fun: Thank you Amy, I’ll check that out!

2007-11-01 13:37:29.0 Ed Sails: I may just try that!

2007-11-01 13:38:02.0 joan: Russ, do you make your cornbread for stuffing with cornmeal only, or with a mix of cornmeal and flour? And what grind of cornmeal do you use?

2007-11-01 13:38:33.0 Russ Parsons: i’ve always been a big fan of brining ... i wrote about it first about 15 years ago. but there is a slight sponginess to the muscle when you brine. with the salting, you get the moisture retention and the browning and the flavor, but the meat is very firm.

2007-11-01 13:39:26.0 Russ Parsons: when you make cornbread stuffing, you use prepared cornbread. and you can make it however you want. though a real southerner would do it with all cornmeal. none of that sweet midwestern stuff (no matter how much i love it with split pea soup!)

2007-11-01 13:39:47.0 food4fun: How do you feel about the “unconventional” cooking methods that seem to be getting popular for turkey?

2007-11-01 13:39:49.0 food4fun: Like the deep-fried turkey, beer can turkey, etc...

2007-11-01 13:40:14.0 Ed Sails: It certainly sounds like less mess. When you let it air dry in the fridge it should be completely uncoverred?

2007-11-01 13:40:50.0 Russ Parsons: hey, if you’ve got a carport you want to burn down, deep-frying is great! seriously, the flavor is really good, but it’s a different thing than roasting. as far as the beer-can. that would have to be a might big can! Maybe Foster’s?

2007-11-01 13:41:09.0 joan: Bon Appetit Magazine’s Nov., 2007, edition has a cornmeal only recipe for cornbread to be used as a basis for stuffing. What grind do you use, Russ?

2007-11-01 13:41:24.0 Russ Parsons: yes, completely uncovered. whether you’re brining or salting, this is a good step, because the fan in the refrigerator will completely dry the skin so it browns better and gets crisper.

2007-11-01 13:42:30.0 Ed Sails: I do like crisp skin!

2007-11-01 13:42:31.0 Russ Parsons: I use cornmeal, not flour. is that what you’re talking about? to tell you the truth, i just buy what the grocery has. if i was more hardcore, i’d order it from Anson Mill or something.

2007-11-01 13:42:38.0 Michael: Russ: I’m curious. Have you ever been a judge at a barbecue contest?

2007-11-01 13:43:08.0 Russ Parsons: yes, and ed, also be sure to get the oyster that’s just in front of where the thigh meats the carcass. that also always goes to the cook.

2007-11-01 13:43:17.0 Paula: When you finish this thread, can you tell me, are there any creative ways I can prepare Brussel Sprouts for Thxgving?

2007-11-01 13:43:53.0 Russ Parsons: Michael, I’ve never judged a barbecue contest. I’m afraid that I am pretty fundamentalist about my bbq. I was raised on Stubb’s BBQ cooked by Stubb himself and I’ve never had anything come close. The one true god and all that.

2007-11-01 13:44:19.0 joan: Russ, I’ve found there are several different grinds, fine and flour-like, medium and coarse.

2007-11-01 13:45:13.0 Russ Parsons: Hiya Paula, I love brussels sprouts. I know that sounds weird, but I think they’re highly underrated. Here’s a precis of a recipe I developed that will run in two weeks: steam the sprouts then when they’re done, cut them in lengthwise quarters. Render some bacon, deglaze with red wine vinegar. Toss the cooked sprouts in this mixture and add chopped fresh chestnuts. it’s really, really good.

2007-11-01 13:45:30.0 amy: My dh did the Martha recipe with bacon and onions and brussels sprouts. Good. the main thing with the sprouts is to select them yourself. I always dig around for the small ones. Last year, I bought a stalk and that was DA BEST!

2007-11-01 13:45:35.0 Michael: That’s great to know! So will you be coming out with a big article in the summer about how to cook Texas style brisket? Brisket is my nemesis ...

2007-11-01 13:45:48.0 Russ Parsons: Gotcha. I think of it as corn flour and polenta with cornmeal in the middle.

2007-11-01 13:46:53.0 Russ Parsons: yes, with sprouts you want to make sure the heads are really tightly wrapped and the outer leaves have not discolored. i really think it’s a great vegetable, provided you don’t overcook it. that’s why i like the steaming and then quartering ... the center stays undercooked.

2007-11-01 13:47:02.0 Paula: Thanks! I’ll look for the recipe. How has your new book been doing? And where can I get signed copies?

2007-11-01 13:47:12.0 Russ Parsons: the only secret to texas-style brisket is time. it takes forever over a well-tended fire.k

2007-11-01 13:47:54.0 Russ Parsons: Thanks for asking Paula! the book is still going really well. It’ll be coming out in paper int eh spring. I’ll be doing a signing weekend after next (i believe) at the Hollywood Farmers Market. Come by and say ‘hey!’.

2007-11-01 13:48:10.0 Ed Sails: I do a simple thing with brussel sprouts. Stem them, drain pot, put the sprouts back in with a splash of olive oil, a grind of pepper and plenty of shaved parmasean. Cover and heat...it’s yummy!

2007-11-01 13:49:00.0 Russ Parsons: that does sound really good. the key, as with any cruciferous vegetable (cabbage, broccoli, etc.) is not to overcook so you don’t get those cabbage-y smells.

2007-11-01 13:49:43.0 Paula: Will do! Bye!

2007-11-01 13:51:25.0 Administrator2: So Russ-- what will be on YOUR Thanksgiving table this year? New stuff, or tried-and-true standbys?

2007-11-01 13:53:02.0 Russ Parsons: well, my dad is turning 80 this year so my family and i are going to Phoenix to celebrate with him and my sister’s and brother’s families. so it’ll be a real mix of new stuff and the traditional dishes that have to be there--the cranberries, of course. a traditional midwestern stuffing. i’m going to try to slip in some kind of sweet potato or winter squash that isn’t accompanied by marshmallows!

2007-11-01 13:53:28.0 Ed Sails: Speaking of the book......you talked about the difference between flour-type, starch type and root type thickeners. What about Wondra flour, and is there anything close to an all-purpose thickener?

2007-11-01 13:55:22.0 Russ Parsons: wondra flour is wheat flour that has been wetted, then dried again. i dont’ think it thickens very well. there isn’t a single all-purpose thickener ... it depends on the finish that you want. for gravies and things like that, I really do prefer flour, but used sparingly. cornstarch and other thickeners tend to get stringy when you hold them. as long as you use just enough flour to barely thicken the liquid (not enough to make paste) i think it really does a very good job.

2007-11-01 13:55:34.0 Michael: Russ: I’m really trying to figure out how to make brisket and have been stumped. I’ve cooked them for over 16 hours on a few occasions, cooked the meat to about 190-200 (which from what I’ve read is the temperature that collagen melts), yet still can’t come up with a tender brisket. when you work on recipes and techniques, do you go to a more “scientific” book about cooking like McGee?

2007-11-01 13:57:32.0 Russ Parsons: Hal’s book is always a good resource. but there’s good material available other places as well, especially now. with a question like that, I’d check out one of the BBQ forums. I don’t have an URL right off hand, but i know there was one I found where the folks seemed really serious and knowledgeable about different woods/meats/technqiues, etc. I think it also helps with brisket to make sure that the fat cap hasn’t been removed. otherwise it’s a very lean cut and it will dry out at higher temps.

2007-11-01 13:57:45.0 joan: Russ, I did a truncated version of a Bon Appetit recipe of 3/8-inch slices of sweet potato and Granny Smith or Braeburn apples alternated, with Martinelli apple juice poured half way up the pan. Roasted for 1 hr at 350. It is a “sell out” every year. No fat, no marshmallows, no sugar, no salt. It’s a dish everyone can eat.

2007-11-01 13:58:23.0 Russ Parsons: that really sounds good! what’s the finished texture like? does it turn into a gratin?

2007-11-01 13:59:10.0 joan: For Michael: Brisket is naturally tough. I braise it in the presence of water, wine or vinegar, smothered in onions. It requires a lid or foil to seal the container.

2007-11-01 14:00:15.0 Russ Parsons: and don’t feel bad Michael, there are plenty of professional bbq cooks in texas who make bad brisket. it really seems to me to be one of those “art” things, like roasting a perfect chicken only a lot more difficult.

2007-11-01 14:01:00.0 Ed Sails: Michael, I’ve found this to be a great resource---www.smoking-meat.com

2007-11-01 14:01:05.0 joan: On the sweet potato/apples side dish, the sweet potato remains firm but fork-tender. The apples sometimes start to lose their form, but are very tender, too.

2007-11-01 14:01:51.0 Russ Parsons: well, that’s a great idea joan. And thanks for coming by everybody. That hour just flew by. Let’s take one more question and then get back to work. who’s up?

2007-11-01 14:02:13.0 Michael: Joan: Thanks. I’m trying to avoid a liquid cooking environment because I’m trying to get a recipe down before competing. The liquid prevents a smoke ring and smoke penetration unfortunately and would require regular turning. Come to think of it, I may try putting it in some kind of liquid after an initial good heavy smoke ...

2007-11-01 14:02:14.0 joan: Thanks.

2007-11-01 14:04:27.0 Michael: Do you have a favorite farm/brand of turkey that you use Russ?

2007-11-01 14:04:36.0 food4fun: Russ, if you could give me ONE tip on making the Thanksgiving turkey-- like, something people often forget or mess up-- what would it be? Family coming in from out of town...I’m nervous!

2007-11-01 14:05:44.0 Russ Parsons: we did a lot of testing a couple of years ago and actually it seemed like a good quality frozen turkey was about as good as anythign else. it’s important that the turkey be constantly frozen ... i find that when turkey gets an almost fishy-like taste sometimes.

2007-11-01 14:07:22.0 Russ Parsons: food4fun, i’m tempted to quote Irma Rombauer: “Stand facing the stove.” but seriously, remember that Thanksgiving is a meal for family to be together. It’s not a meal to dazzle everyone with your culinary brilliance. It’s about THEM, it’s not about YOU. so even if the food isn’t totally perfect, as long as you make sure everyone stays happy, they’ll remember the meal fondly. if that fails, make sure to get your cousin good and drunk so he acts out and gives everyone a chance to talk about something other than the food for the next year!

2007-11-01 14:07:40.0 Michael: Thanks Russ. Have a great weekend!

2007-11-01 14:07:42.0 food4fun: Thank you Russ!

2007-11-01 14:07:44.0 Administrator2: If you missed any of today’s chat, go to www.latimes.com/features/food later today to read the full transcript. And be sure to come back for Russ’ next chat November 15!

2007-11-01 14:07:57.0 Russ Parsons: And with that happy thought, i’ll bid you adieu!