Environmentalism and conservationism

Discuss Jonah Goldberg's column.

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1. Jonah Goldberg is giving us a modern verson of the battle betwwen Gifford Pinchot & John Muir. Over 100 years ago, the two men debated their positions in popular magazines as Outlook, Harper's Weekly, Atlantic Monthly, World's Work, and Century. Muir argued for the preservation of the land's spiritual and uplifting values; Pinchot saw conservation as a means of managing for the sustainable commercial use of what he prized: the nation's natural resources. For the same reasons that Muir won that debate, I expect Gore will do the same thing.
Submitted by: Raul de Brigard
3:20 PM PDT, May 22, 2008

2. Jonah, Calm down! The figures are all there if you care to look at them. I know there are some people that are not impressed by statistics, but for most of us, they mean something. If we define something as true, it will be true in its consequences. If we see no threat to the planet and take no action, we will reap the rewards.
Submitted by: William DuBay
10:03 AM PDT, May 22, 2008

3. Correction: Chicago School buffs seduce themselves to believe the free-market pricing-system & wealth-maximization determine value: A good is worth more if I pay more for it; if I am wealthier than you, my product is more valuable than yours. Their religion is debunked by logic & reality & their failing to account for critical matters like underutilization of resources. See, e.g., Leonard R. Jaffee, The Troubles with Law and Economics, 20 Hofstra L. Rev. 777 (1992) (available only in law libraries). Consider why we punish market fraud, racketeering, monopoly, predatory pricing, bargaining duress & deceit, bribery of officials...
Submitted by: Loup-bouc
6:09 PM PDT, May 21, 2008

4. Chicago School buffs seduce themselves to believe the free-market pricing-system & wealth-maximization determine value: A good is worth more if I pay more for it; if I am wealthier than you, my product is more valuable than yours. Their religion debunked by logic & reality & their failing to account for critical matters like underutilization of resources. See, e.g., Leonard R. Jaffee, The Troubles with Law and Economics, 20 Hofstra L. Rev. 777 (1992) (available only in law libraries). Consider why we have legal rules against market fraud, racketeering, monopoly, predatory pricing, bargaining duress & deceit, bribery of officials...
Submitted by: Loup-bouc
6:00 PM PDT, May 21, 2008

5. “...grocers should not be expected to recoup the higher costs of paper bags; charge a fee per bag (a cost that is hidden in the shelf prices under the current free bag system) and encourage the use of reusable bags.” John Beran, 8:51 AM, 21 May 21 If grocers charge a paper bag fee yet give buyers a no-charge or lesser charge plastic-bag option, few will choose paper — because of poverty, stinginess, or greed. The solution is: Grocers use only paper and continue to include the cost in grocery-item price but give the buyer a discount if the buyer brings her own re-usable bag.
Submitted by: Loup-bouc
5:40 PM PDT, May 21, 2008

6. “The problem with Environmentalism is that it's...anti-human [“wants what's best for...Earth”]. ... I will not lower my head in shame for being a human and pursuing happiness.” Peter, 21 May, 12:42 PM. Your view is consummate arrogance. Other species suffer pain & sickness & seek pleasure, too; some are intelligent as humans & more social & sociable & empathic. Other humans desire Earth's salvation; they hurt as they witness you degrade it. Your shallow happiness imposes costs on other humans, now and yet unborn, and other species, present and future. Like Goldberg, you are an unempathic, utterly egosyntonic idiot.
Submitted by: Loup-bouc
5:29 PM PDT, May 21, 2008

7. The problem with Environmentalism is that its basically anti-human. Environmentalists don't care about my well-being, my happiness, my life. They simply want what's best for their Earth. To them, Man (me) is a poison or plague that must be neutralized. In fact, If they had their preference ... I would simply be gone. I can't subscribe to a movement, "Solution", policy, or religion that condemns me just for existing. I will not lower my head in shame for being a human and pursuing happiness.
Submitted by: Peter
12:42 PM PDT, May 21, 2008

8. Well, seeing as this coming from the guy saying that we should bomb Canada back to the stone age, I'm not surprised at this high level of drivel. Yeah, a sci-fi writer who's been off his rocker, is an expert on warming. Has Jurassic Park happened yet? Nope and never will. It's called fiction for a reason, isn't it? Next, we'll ask horror author Anne Rice if vampires exist among us, since she clearly thinks so.
Submitted by: Hyena
12:06 PM PDT, May 21, 2008

9. Such non-logic… Gore has been dubbed a "prophet," and his book is stocked next to the Bible, so environmentalism is a religion? And the Kyoto Protocols are not about saving polar bears -- that argument employs a logical fallacy. Threats from global warming, as we know, have much broader scope -- extinctions, drought, tropical diseases, and coastal flooding from rising sea levels. I first read of such years ago in the pages of Scientific American -- hardly a religious or wacko publication. I would expect a true "conservative" to appreciate the benefit of erring on the side of caution when the potential cost of being wrong is so very high.
Submitted by: PPitsker
11:03 AM PDT, May 21, 2008

10. Plus, let's not forget that Goldberg's multiple references to Bjorn Lomborg shouldn't function as an authoritative reference that obstructs our further inquiry into the matter. Here's a debate between D. Kammen of Berkeley and Bjorn Lomborg...http://www.hoover.org/multimedia/uk/2996211.html
Submitted by: ryan
10:32 AM PDT, May 21, 2008

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