Discuss this editorial

Rarely do I find myself in disagreement with the Times editorials. But this is pretty ignorant of the facts. Tenure only means any firing must include due process. That protects the best teachers from administrators who only seek to see parents as little as possible by removing anything strenuous from the curriculum. In fact, it's the very best teachers teaching the most strenuous curriculum who need tenure most and not the bad teachers. Bad teachers only exist because of bad administrators. Andy Rooney said it best over 20 years ago on 60 Minutes. 'If you have a bad student in school, there is always a failing parent at home.'

Pat Martin @ 4:54 AM PST, Dec 12, 2008

CA, over half of all new teachers DO "get out of the kitchen," taking jobs with more pay, fewer beaurocrats, and less political criticism from people who haven't been in a classroom since they failed Eighth grade.

rednets @ 11:56 PM PST, Dec 11, 2008

It's nonsense that a teacher with tenure cannot be fired. There are specific procedures in place which, if followed by the administration, make it no harder to fire a teacher than to fire any member of another profession. Just as, say, in the grocery business, a poorly performing teacher must be "written up," very clearly warned, given a chance to improve, and then, if all the steps have been carried out, dismissed. Darrin James is right; tenure is the scary monster under the bed that conservatives use as an excuse to attack teachers' unions and avoid spending money on education.

rednets @ 11:53 PM PST, Dec 11, 2008

yeah sure its always the teachers fault, the only scapegoat, someone other than your child to point your finger at. Stop. Teachers spend years working and paying to teach our societies children under terrible working conditions, few resources, little pay, no recognition. California teachers are some of the highest qualified in the nation with the toughest credential standards. Try walking in their shoes for just one day. Or rather, try to take responsibility for making contributions to the classroom rather than complaining about job security.

gjh @ 11:30 PM PST, Dec 11, 2008

Get rid of tenure and you will see a complete flight from teaching K-12. Tenure is more about keeping schools staffed adequately. It's the only thing keeping thousands f good teachers teaching here in CA. Take away their job security and any teacher with a brain will flee the insanity of public K-12 teaching for private sector jobs.

you're kidding, right? @ 8:50 PM PST, Dec 11, 2008

As a tenured and hardworking teacher myself, I find it appalling on a daily basis to see so many teachers show up and leave with the students. They do their paperwork during class time while their students do busy work. I work in a high need area, and it is a shame that there are so many teachers that just don't care. But when layoffs come, none of this is taken into account. It is a ridiculous system, imposed on California by the teachers' unions and their allies in the state legislature. No private company that operated similarly could be successful.

Tenured Teacher @ 7:08 PM PST, Dec 11, 2008

To all the competent, excellent teachers: stop feeling the need to defend yourselves! The administration, teaching staff, parents and even students know what this issue is all about! You know who we are talking about...Are they next door to you? Teachers,lets behave like a real profession and start a peer review process that allows for the profession to self regulate. The 95% or more of us will deal with the loosers that taint the profession and harm children!

jnp @ 5:52 PM PST, Dec 11, 2008

Just one of many examples:the teacher is so imcompetent that a full time substitue teacher is assigned to her,because she claims to be handcapped....a very long history covering many adminitrators have hihgly documented and attempted to remove her from the classroom. To no avail!!! Children are expendable in the current status quo. Shame on all of us for not doing right for the students sake!

jnp @ 5:29 PM PST, Dec 11, 2008

Yes, being a teacher is hard work but where's the accountability? Teachers stop being lazy and invest in the future. Our children are the future get it? All of you politically motivated teachers need to take a back seat. You know who you are.

About time! @ 4:02 PM PST, Dec 11, 2008

Let's clarify the idea behind tenure-- it's not a question of "skating into retirement." Tenure is about protecting professors' academic freedom: their ability to research, write, and teach what they deem appropriate without fear of being terminated for expressing their opinions. It is one of the cornerstones of our academic system, and this is why unions so strongly defend it.

molly @ 3:48 PM PST, Dec 11, 2008

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