You went to Berkeley during the Free Speech Movement. How did you fit in?
You're working at Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher again -- right back where you started after law school.
I joined Gibson, Dunn in Los Angeles in June 1965. After law school, I've only had two employers, really -- Gibson, Dunn and two stints in the Department of Justice, one in the early part of the Reagan administration and then as solicitor general in the George W. Bush administration.
Some of the clients you've represented include coal and tobacco companies and Vice President Dick Cheney. Put together the dots, and you wouldn't come up with what you're doing now on Proposition 8.
I have represented a variety of clients over the years, including Ronald Reagan, the American Bar Assn., the convicted Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard on an appeal. You're probably right, you probably wouldn't have drawn a line and said, "Well, it's logical that he's going to be representing these people in this case in California." But we are discriminating unfairly and unreasonably against gay and lesbian individuals, and it's the wrong thing for us to do.
Chad Griffin, the head of the American Foundation for Legal Rights, the group funding the case, invited you aboard. He once said you were among the last 10 people in the world he'd want to meet. How did the connection happen?
He and Rob and Michele Reiner were having lunch -- or maybe just Rob and Michele -- and they bumped into my former sister-in-law and mentioned that they thought Proposition 8 was going to be upheld in the California Supreme Court, and they were thinking about a legal challenge. She said, "Why don't you think about Ted Olson?" Chad called me up and talked to me, and then we went from there.
Are you working pro bono?
We're charging fees, but we're also contributing a lot of our services.
You and Boies -- you're a version of Hepburn and Tracy in "Adam's Rib."
That's a nice way to put it. I like that. I thought we needed someone who was a well-recognized lawyer but who would provide balance for my perspective. I wanted to convey the message that this was not Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal, that this is about human rights and human decency and constitutional law. David was my opponent in Bush v. Gore, but he's someone for whom I have great respect and affection. We spend some time together once in a while socially. We've done some biking in Europe together. He didn't hesitate for a second.
Does your argument have more purchase with conservatives because you're the one making it?
I'm hoping that it does. I hope some people will open their eyes to the decency of getting to the point where we allow gay and lesbian individuals to be married and have a happy life.
I expect some of your fan mail has flipped 180 degrees because of this?
I am getting comments from some segments of the society who feel that it's the wrong thing to do and I'm betraying the conservative cause and things that I've stood for in my life. Some of it is quite hostile. But that goes with the territory. On the other hand, I'm hearing from people, including plenty of Republicans, who are very, very grateful. It has been overwhelmingly gratifying to hear from very decent people who are touched by the fact that we're trying to help.
A woman came up to me in our library in our law firm and said, "You and I haven't worked together, but I'm a lesbian. My partner and I have two children." And she burst into tears. I put my arm around her and she put her arms around me. This stands for what we're trying to accomplish here. It's a principle, but it's a principle that deeply touches human beings. If we're successful, we can help the lives of literally millions of people. And what a great service that would be.
Have you heard from Bush administration people about this? Maybe the president or vice president or Karl Rove?