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Should Turkey let women wear head scarves in schools? Discuss today's Blowback.
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1.
The reputation of Middle Eastern Muslims is they don't speak the truth. Three Turkish archaeologists visited the Temple Mount/Dome in Jerusalem over Palestinian claims the Jews were destroying Palestinian artifacts in favor of Jewish artifacts. These pseudo-scientists agreed, but they were dishonest again. There are so many archaeologists/researchers from around the world researching the Mount and Ir David, no one can get away with lying.
Most Westerners will not tolerate scholars who lie about history and origins. There are Muslim professors in some American eastern universities who are doing exactly that. We must be on guard.
2. this is how hitler came into power, by using the democracy, with which he did away later. akp is no different, PM erdogan said himself, "democracy is a vehicle that will take us to our goal" which is an islamic state, the question is, "does the US want and an islamic state bridgeing east to west?" another iran at hand? . the the headscarf is the symbol of women's oppression in turkey, the US adm. should stop supporting the AKP adm. for that support doesnt serve teh best interests of the US.
3. I agree with Mr. Ellis' opinion. Let's name it. AKP surely wants to turn secular Turkey into a dictatorship. One should never use AKP and democracy words in the same phrase. What's elite? Come on. There've never been elite people in Turkey. The ones AKP supporters call elites are just bureaucrats, members of justice system and the army. Their only fault is being adherent of Ataturk's policy. Which is obviously enough to be held in abomination by AKP...
4. NO! Islam has Sheria: 1 man's witnessing = 2 women witnessing. women can have 1/3 of inheritance, man have 2/3. religion’s a public pressure in illiterate and poor communities. Turkish history has it from Selim-III, Ottoman Empire. Turkish Republic faces martyrize of Lieutenant Kubilay in 1930 by marginal Islamists. Recent shock is 1993 Sivas Madimak Slaughter: 37 intellectuals were burnt alive by 10.000 people. Today, even students are beaten by marginal groups in campuses during Ramazan as they do not fast. once head scarves become free, separation of community would begin. Turkey's secularism is only way of binding Islam and democracy.
5. I totally agree with Mr. Ellis. Having trade relations with Arabic countries is one thing, using these relations to import their culture to our country is another thing. On the other hand, head-scarf is a political symbol, not just an innocent trend. There is nothing like the "secular-elites" in Turkey as some people are using to belittle the feelings and beliefs of many people in Turkey, who want to live their faith without letting it become a tool for greedy politicians.
6. the American neo-con/Turkish Kemalist and Euro-conservative alliance is pushing for a misinterpretation of Turkish politics. Soner Cagaptay who is a Turkey expert at neo-con Washington Institute for Near East Policy is the pioneer in this misinformation campaign. I question why such articles are published in Los Angeles Times rather than in New York Times. AKP is the single most important power that seeks EU membership in Turkey and today the closure case against the governing party is the a real challenge to the EU membership. What if Turkey gets the Saudi investments? is this a worry for the United States and Europe who also get it?
7. As a Turkish woman, I watch AKP's so called democratic advances to bring head scarf to universities with horror. Majority of the 1% of women who say they cannot attend university without head scarf are forced by their fathers, brothers or husbands to cover up. In Islam, the reason for covering women is explained as this: Men can easily be seduced by seeing a woman's hair or face or naked arms or feet, etc . So women need to cover every part to avoid seducing other men. If they don't, it means they have "caused" the men to have unholy thoughts and they have lost all virtue, they are now practically no better than prostitutes.
8. Some people seem to live in a dream world. If you wake up and look at the evidence you will see the truth. In Turkey AKP is the only party that is pushing Turkey to join EU and so called secular-elite do not want EU because joining EU means loosing their power. How do you see a religion-based goverment as part of EU. This is an old story. If you want the truth just follow the money & power who has it who does not want to loose it. Today's Turkey is not the Turkey of 1950's. Turkish people want freedom, democracy and they are tired of old-elite telling them why they should obey them.
9. I am a little confused ! Does Mr Ellis really believe that Turkey is on the verge of turning into a theocracy simply because it happens to allow women to cover their heads at school or because it has good relations with Saudi Arabia and receives Arab investment. It is worthy of note that the majority of Western nations have cordial relations with the Saudis and benefit from Saudi investments and yes, allow college girls to dress as they please. Why not label them as theocracies too ?
10. Neither Ellis nor Bagis are correct. A diversification of foreign relations is a good thing. Excluding the Hamas blunder, Turkey can play a positive role in the Middle East, and efforts to forge its own path there are the natural consequence of a state beginning to assert its own interests. The AKP is not without fault however. It had the opportunity to forge ahead with reforms, instead it chose to get itself into a quagmire over the headscarf. Sometimes the AKP seems divisive to point it openly provokes the opposition. Mr Bagis should not get carried away with 47% of the electorate, his party have a duty to work for the other 53% also.
Submitted by: Kathleen
2. this is how hitler came into power, by using the democracy, with which he did away later. akp is no different, PM erdogan said himself, "democracy is a vehicle that will take us to our goal" which is an islamic state, the question is, "does the US want and an islamic state bridgeing east to west?" another iran at hand? . the the headscarf is the symbol of women's oppression in turkey, the US adm. should stop supporting the AKP adm. for that support doesnt serve teh best interests of the US.
Submitted by: kemal
3. I agree with Mr. Ellis' opinion. Let's name it. AKP surely wants to turn secular Turkey into a dictatorship. One should never use AKP and democracy words in the same phrase. What's elite? Come on. There've never been elite people in Turkey. The ones AKP supporters call elites are just bureaucrats, members of justice system and the army. Their only fault is being adherent of Ataturk's policy. Which is obviously enough to be held in abomination by AKP...
Submitted by: Eth
4. NO! Islam has Sheria: 1 man's witnessing = 2 women witnessing. women can have 1/3 of inheritance, man have 2/3. religion’s a public pressure in illiterate and poor communities. Turkish history has it from Selim-III, Ottoman Empire. Turkish Republic faces martyrize of Lieutenant Kubilay in 1930 by marginal Islamists. Recent shock is 1993 Sivas Madimak Slaughter: 37 intellectuals were burnt alive by 10.000 people. Today, even students are beaten by marginal groups in campuses during Ramazan as they do not fast. once head scarves become free, separation of community would begin. Turkey's secularism is only way of binding Islam and democracy.
Submitted by: seckin erden
5. I totally agree with Mr. Ellis. Having trade relations with Arabic countries is one thing, using these relations to import their culture to our country is another thing. On the other hand, head-scarf is a political symbol, not just an innocent trend. There is nothing like the "secular-elites" in Turkey as some people are using to belittle the feelings and beliefs of many people in Turkey, who want to live their faith without letting it become a tool for greedy politicians.
Submitted by: Zubeyde Eceabat
6. the American neo-con/Turkish Kemalist and Euro-conservative alliance is pushing for a misinterpretation of Turkish politics. Soner Cagaptay who is a Turkey expert at neo-con Washington Institute for Near East Policy is the pioneer in this misinformation campaign. I question why such articles are published in Los Angeles Times rather than in New York Times. AKP is the single most important power that seeks EU membership in Turkey and today the closure case against the governing party is the a real challenge to the EU membership. What if Turkey gets the Saudi investments? is this a worry for the United States and Europe who also get it?
Submitted by: Matt P
7. As a Turkish woman, I watch AKP's so called democratic advances to bring head scarf to universities with horror. Majority of the 1% of women who say they cannot attend university without head scarf are forced by their fathers, brothers or husbands to cover up. In Islam, the reason for covering women is explained as this: Men can easily be seduced by seeing a woman's hair or face or naked arms or feet, etc . So women need to cover every part to avoid seducing other men. If they don't, it means they have "caused" the men to have unholy thoughts and they have lost all virtue, they are now practically no better than prostitutes.
Submitted by: Turkish Woman
8. Some people seem to live in a dream world. If you wake up and look at the evidence you will see the truth. In Turkey AKP is the only party that is pushing Turkey to join EU and so called secular-elite do not want EU because joining EU means loosing their power. How do you see a religion-based goverment as part of EU. This is an old story. If you want the truth just follow the money & power who has it who does not want to loose it. Today's Turkey is not the Turkey of 1950's. Turkish people want freedom, democracy and they are tired of old-elite telling them why they should obey them.
Submitted by: Kel Oglan
9. I am a little confused ! Does Mr Ellis really believe that Turkey is on the verge of turning into a theocracy simply because it happens to allow women to cover their heads at school or because it has good relations with Saudi Arabia and receives Arab investment. It is worthy of note that the majority of Western nations have cordial relations with the Saudis and benefit from Saudi investments and yes, allow college girls to dress as they please. Why not label them as theocracies too ?
Submitted by: SAS
10. Neither Ellis nor Bagis are correct. A diversification of foreign relations is a good thing. Excluding the Hamas blunder, Turkey can play a positive role in the Middle East, and efforts to forge its own path there are the natural consequence of a state beginning to assert its own interests. The AKP is not without fault however. It had the opportunity to forge ahead with reforms, instead it chose to get itself into a quagmire over the headscarf. Sometimes the AKP seems divisive to point it openly provokes the opposition. Mr Bagis should not get carried away with 47% of the electorate, his party have a duty to work for the other 53% also.
Submitted by: Tanju
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