In Theory: Panelists get into the trenches

The saying “There are no atheists in foxholes” means to convey that in times of extreme distress or great peril — as in a foxhole — even the most ardent atheist is moved to pray to a higher power.

However, according to Austin Cline, an agnosticism and atheism expert at About.com Religion, the saying is a myth, and even if it were true, “there would be serious problems with it.”

Cline questions whether such “foxhole” experiences generate authentic faith. “Would God even want people to believe merely because they were under great pressure and very afraid?”

Q. How much credence do you put in the saying “There are no atheists in foxholes?”

As famous intellectual and atheist Christopher Hitchens said when he was in the late stages of terminal cancer and asked if he would turn to god, “Such a thing would be pathetic.”

The fact is, faith and prayer, while making the believer feel better, serve no other purpose. Hitchens reasonably gave his “blessing” to those wishing to pray for him, if it made them feel better. At the same time, he made it absolutely clear he would never do the same.

One is religiously faithful for many reasons including childhood inculcation, fear, guilt, emotional need and the like. However, true thoughtful reasoning is something that leads one away from blind faith. Coming to the realization there is no god takes careful examination of the facts and evidence as well as courage, especially in a world dominated by religious bullying. It is even more difficult to admit openly to being a nonbeliever. To abandon these hard won convictions would indeed be pathetic as well as completely illogical.

Part of that reckoning of truth is the understanding and acceptance that death is inescapable and final. It comes with the realization that the idea of a god or an afterlife is simply wishful thinking for people who don’t want to confront the reality of death. People who accept the certitude of death, realize the importance of living each moment to its fullest and when they face death, can be comforted by what they have done in life and have no need for grasping for religious straws.

Joshua Lewis Berg
Humanist Celebrant
Glendale

..

It’s difficult to comprehend how service people (voluntary, red-blooded, American service people) could join an organization that has them solemnly swear to defend the Constitution of the United States “so help me God,” and yet reject that God. Though avowed atheists, they promise to defend our “One Nation Under God” whose national motto declares “In God We Trust,” yet they disbelievingly enlist, willing to risk the foxhole moment. While I don’t especially get it, I can only compare it to the militaries of nations who refuse God outright, and yet muster armies of people who fight for everything but.

I once believed the adage, “There are no atheists in foxholes,” and I still Christianly believe that even the most ardent denier of God will have a fleeting moment of God-wonder when death knocks at their door. Surely such moments of doubt cross the minds of believers, so given our common humanity, it’s likely so with unbelievers. But I’ve had many atheist service people write me and swear they don’t need God to fight heroically, and that they didn’t use God as a “crutch” when the bullets were flying. We’ll have to take them at their word, but that doesn’t mean there weren’t also both genuine and counterfeit foxhole conversions among their stalwart number. How many tales have been told of people who called upon God in their moment of crisis and then became great saints after he apparently answered their prayers? Conversely, many have called upon God with an oath of allegiance if he but help, only to abandon him once the danger subsided. So yes, I believe there are foxhole conversions, some are true, some are not, and some never occur.

Remember Christ on the cross? Beside him were two other crucified men, both mocking, until one suddenly came to himself and expressed faith in the nearby Savior. Jesus said to him, “Truly, I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise” (Luk 23:43). Both men faced death, one repented and converted, the other remained unmoved and received no promise of heaven. Conversion is a spiritual matter and not merely a momentary decision. It only takes a moment, but the time it takes to get there differs for everyone, and God only knows the genuine article.

Are there no atheists in foxholes? I believe this is a true statement in a proverbial sense: It is generally true, but not always. Still, let us be grateful this Thanksgiving holiday for all our service people who defend our right to believe, regardless, and “God bless America!”

Rev. Bryan A. Griem
Tujunga

..

I believe that “foxholes” only draw out and intensify the inclination that is already in a person’s heart. “Foxholes” only make more committed atheists or more committed believers.

When God put Pharaoh into a situation of severe pressure, he only hardened his heart against God. The “foxhole” didn’t elicit faith from him. The Book of Revelation chapter 16 describes the future response of wicked men to the imminent outpouring of God’s worldwide judgment: “Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give him glory. … and they gnawed their tongues because of pain, and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.” (Rev: 16-11). In contrast, the Psalmist in Psalm 119:71 observed, “It is good for me that I was afflicted, that I may learn your statutes.” His pressure situation made him draw closer to God in trust and obedience. When Israel suffered captivity in Assyria and Babylon, as a nation they ultimately turned away from the idolatry they had fallen into and turned their hearts back to God. They cried out to him and he restored them to their land.

There are many people today who have just a “kernel” of faith that is not yet publicly expressed or visible. But when things get tough they cry out to God. Deep, deep down the faith is there in a primal form. The “foxhole” prompts them to act upon their faith, and their action proves the genuineness of it. And God hears the “foxhole” cries of these afflicted people. In Luke 17:6 Jesus affirmed the effectiveness of “faith [even] like a mustard seed,” small, almost invisible, but yet real and enough to move the heart of God to help in time of need. No matter what the size of the faith in your heart is, God’s promise stands: “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31).

Pastor Jon Barta
Burbank

..

Anyone brave and unlucky enough to find themselves in a foxhole has my blessing to call upon any and all higher powers, be they supernatural, one’s own inner strength or United Nations Peacekeepers.

Bear in mind that from all the opposing foxholes the same pleas for help are ringing out. Maybe best that we use our big brains instead and avoid the whole foxhole thing.

No, I don’t give any credence to the idea that unbelievers faced with grave danger will all immediately get religion, but I will go along with this: “There are only a few atheists in foxholes.”

This is because out of about 1.3 million U.S. military active-duty personnel a mere 12,000 declare themselves atheists. Some of the 20% who express no religious preference may be nonbelievers, and who knows how many nontheists lurk among those who decline to answer. (Reporting religion or lack thereof is not required by the military.)

The scarcity of nonreligious people letting themselves be available for foxhole occupancy tells me that atheists are already exercising their rational beliefs and avoiding the military.

Roberta Medford
Atheist
Montrose