IN THEORY:

The Associated Press last week published a story about David Ramsey of Brentwood, Tenn. He’s touted as a “Christian money guru” who mixes faith and financial advice by arranging money classes through churches where he uses the Bible to support his ideas of wise money spending.

Critics feel that Ramsey’s financial advice does not belong in church, that “It was a way to make money instead of deliver a message.”

What do you think about what Ramsey is doing? Do you believe it is appropriate to make money by dispensing financial advice through churches?

Somebody pointed out one time that Jesus says four times as much about money as he does about prayer. I haven’t gone through the Gospels and made my own survey, but I’m guessing that ratio is pretty close.

Think about it: We are told that the Prince of Peace was born in a stable, not in a fancy hotel. In attendance were “certain poor shepherds,” as “The First Nowell” has it, probably paraphrasing Luke’s account. Near the end of his life, we’re told that Jesus overturned the tables of the money-changers in the temple. In the middle of his preaching life (Beatitudes, Matthew 5), he told his listeners: “Blessed are the poor in spirit.” And there are some commentators who have said that one way of translating that passage is, “Blessed are you poor.”

The Apostle Paul, in one of his letters, says that the love of money is the root of all evil. Now I’m not saying that God wants you to live under a bridge somewhere and beg for alms. Fair pay for a job well done and a job well liked is one of God’s greatest blessings. However, be careful. There are those who preach what is called a “Prosperity Gospel.” They say, in essence, that God wants you to be rich. I don’t believe that at all; God wants you to be faithful. If you have been fortunate and have made more than you need, great, but be sure to share it with those who are not as fortunate.

And remember the words of Jesus about how it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

Finally, the man the church calls the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of the Living God, died with the clothes on his back, and whatever was left was gambled for beneath the cross by his executioners.

So, those of you who would follow Jesus, did he die rich or did he die poor?

You know the answer!

PASTOR CLIFFORD L. “SKIP” LINDEMAN

La Cañada Congregational Church

Recently, I purchased items at two local big-name stores. Then I wandered into a dollar store and found both items for guess how much? The brand stores charged seven times what I immediately bought before returning their ridiculously overpriced goods.

I tell you this because, had I known in advance where to find my items and save money, I would have saved both time and money. Now aren’t you glad I told you? Perhaps I’ll find more ways to save, then market a seminar to help others. With positive response, I could make myself a decent income while helping you save more of yours.

Sound good? Well that’s about what happened when David Ramsey shared some financial advice and people were helped. His insights were not especially embraced by the general public, however, because his principles derived from scripture, and that doesn’t excite the unconverted. It’s the church people that want to live according to God’s wisdom, and if he says anything about handling our money, then we should listen more attentively than others might to Millionaire Bob on the infomercial about instant real estate wealth.

The Bible does address finances: “The borrower is servant to the lender,” and “He who gathers money little by little makes it grow.” (Proverbs 22:7 and 13:11 NIV) Pastors occasionally preach these passages, but collating all such verses into a helpful, topic-specific system also interests Christians, and we gather in church auditoriums. So I have no problem with this any more than I would if someone held cooking seminars based on Bible foods, in the church commissary.

Some say Ramsey’s ideas don’t always add up, while others have become true believers. Isn’t that like everything? Unless there’s something corrupt afoot, Christians are simply paying for advice, and God gets the credit. Where’s the problem?

PASTOR BRYAN GRIEM

Montrose Community Church

I understand that there will always be critics and those who feel this type of thing doesn’t belong in the church, but I have another take on the issue.

First of all, even the delivery of a message is worth a payment. The Bible is clear that, “The worker deserves his wage.” (I Timothy 5:18) Often, churches, too, do not bless people financially for their work in a way that is appropriate. Ramsey is providing a service; it deserves payment.

Christians are people with a need for advice, be it medical, in the form of a trade, financial, etc. Providing this service in a church setting is no different than a Christian going to a financial advisor for advice. I perceive the fact that it is being brought into the church as a blessing — as it is a necessity in that arena just as it is needed in others.

In fact, I have witnessed Christians who make many financially unwise decisions. I have worked with people in the ministry that did not know how to manage their money. Maybe some of these individuals would not even seek out help if it wasn’t brought into their church — much like I bring parenting classes into the local church for that very reason, because being Christian does not make you wise in all areas. In fact, it can often be a cop-out to not do things with excellence, as we are supposed to.

Being sensible with money only makes us wiser as Christians. If Ramsey is a Christian and incorporates that wording into his delivery to get the message across, I see nothing wrong with it. Could he give a discount on his speaking engagements for churches and charge full fee for secular organizations? Yes, he could, if he is not already doing so. But I also see no sin in not doing that.

COUNSELOR KIMBERLIE ZAKARIAN

La Vie Counseling Center in Pasadena

The primary focus of David Ramsey’s seminar is teaching participants how to use money wisely. He advises against using credit cards irresponsibly, encourages people to carefully monitor their expenses and reminds them to live within their means. These are laudable principles that complement the ideology of practically every religion, and should be learned by all Americans in monetary distress.

Ramsey does not present himself falsely, nor do his teachings appear to be a gimmick, so I commend those houses of worship that have invited him to lecture to their congregations. I also feel that he is providing a valuable service and should therefore receive fair compensation.

Religious institutions across America have been severely affected by a national decline in contributions, but are nevertheless assisting families in need every single day. Helping people to get back on stable footing for the long run is equally important to meeting their immediate needs for food, housing and financial support. Ramsey’s courses bring to mind the well-known adage: “If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.”

During the past decade of prosperity, many Americans became accustomed to spending money freely and living beyond their means. The deep recession has forced us to reverse this trend and to curtail spending. I am optimistic that the worst of this crisis is now behind us, and believe that we will all see prosperity soon enough.

However, I truly hope that the lessons learned during these difficult times will nevertheless stay with us so that we will be more fiscally responsible — both by saving more and by allocating a fair portion to charitable causes.

RABBI SIMCHA BACKMAN

Chabad of Glendale and the Foothills

There are various schemes for improving one’s financial status, and David Ramsey’s approach is one of them. His classes are popular, and have followers who credit his advice with leading them to financial success.

I’ve not explored his method, and the Associated Press story gives only a hint of its scriptural basis. In general, I can appreciate a businessman basing his operations essentially on what he learns in the scriptures.

In that respect, Ramsey is a very successful businessman. Whether one agrees that his classes should be given within churches will depend on one’s viewpoints about church.

Certainly Christ Jesus was not himself in the finance business, but promoted dependence on God’s spiritually provided resources, such as when he instructed Peter to find tax money in the mouth of a fish (Matthew 17:27).

He also said, “Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.” (Matthew 6:33)

In Christian Science we see this as indicating our natural, spiritual alignment with God, and this understanding brings with it increased blessings that can include answers to our pecuniary needs. Both the Psalms and Christ Jesus promise abundance through adherence to God.

Mary Baker Eddy, the founder of Christian Science, considered that spiritually educated individuals had the necessary tools for life. In her book “Science and Health With Key to the Scriptures,” she writes that an understanding of “the laws of God and His government of the universe . . . extends the atmosphere of thought, giving mortals access to broader and higher reals. It raises the thinker into his native air of insight an perspicacity” and it “develops the latent abilities and possibilities of man [both men and women].” This includes our financial well-being.

One cannot deny that sound financial management is important, but should that be taught at church?

For me, it is preferable that the church concentrates on teaching practical, spiritual approaches to life, which can be a foundation for spiritually inspired business people, and so that individuals can prayerfully determine where and how to seek advice about managing their finances.

FIRST READER GRAHAM BOTHWELL

First Church of Christ, Scientist, in La Cañada

I am troubled when commercial ventures use churches as a means to sell their products or services, especially if the Bible is used directly, or indirectly, as a rationale, justification or endorsement for such products or services.

Such “religious” endorsements, whether intended or not, can mislead congregants into believing that they should purchase a product or service because of its perceived religious nature or validation.

I have not attended any of David Ramsey’s seminars, so I can’t evaluate the nature and scope of them or his products or services. Even so, I think it would be better to let him distribute his products and services outside the scope of churches.

Having said that, in these troubled economic times, sermons, programs, speakers or the like on economic topics that are directed to helping congregants improve their financial circumstances are timely and appropriate.

Often, professionals within congregations are willing to provide their time and talents on a voluntary basis to deliver valuable information and assistance on such matters.

To me, this seems more appropriate than contracting with a for-profit institution to “sell” their products and services through churches.

As an example, our church is sponsoring a financial seminar at 7 p.m. Sunday at our La Crescenta Chapel, 4550 Raymond Ave. This seminar is free and open to all. The topic is “Ways to Manage Family Finances and Strengthen the Family’s Foundation.”

There will be four 25-minute sessions covering the elimination of consumer debt and managing mortgages, job resume building and interview tips, professional networking and interview skills, and how to start your own business.

This seminar will be presented by knowledgeable professional volunteers, with the focus of providing valuable information to those attending.

BISHOP FRED L. CARPENTER

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints