In Theory: God, guns and country

Glendale City Councilman Rafi Manoukian is pushing a ban of gun shows at Glendale Civic Auditorium. Mayor Frank Quintero is backing Manoukian’s proposal, saying, “I think the time has come for this country to reexamine easy access to guns.”

Manoukian tried to ban the gun show in 2006 but was unsuccessful. This time he’s advocating banning the sale of guns within 1,000 feet of Glendale Community College, which would prevent the show from being held, as the auditorium is across the street. He cites the Dec. 14 massacre in Newtown, Conn., as the catalyst for trying again.

The gun show, held three times a year, is a source of revenue for Glendale, bringing in $54,473 in 2012. Glendale Gun Show spokesman Steve Friesen said, “our hearts are broken over the tragedy [in Connecticut].” His organization has been promoting gun shows in Glendale for more than 20 years, and Friesen says all transactions are in compliance with local, state and federal laws.

Q: What do you think of Manoukian’s plan?

I’m all for it. “Are these violence-based and soul-destroying activities really the best use that we can make of this public venue?”, I asked in 2009 letter to the editor on gun sales (and prize fighting) in the Glendale Civic Auditorium.

Regarding the rental revenue, what’s that warning about gaining the world but losing one’s soul?

Yes, California’s gun laws are fairly strong, but why should our city officially facilitate any potential access to guns with no legitimate civilian use? If a ban can’t be achieved, perhaps a compromise could limit these shows to antique and collectible firearms, said to be their strength now.

Quixotic though efforts like Manoukian and Quintero’s may be, the resulting discussion is how we change the culture, one person, one city at a time, moving us away from gun violence.

No doubt in response to yet another massacre, the Oct. 23, 2011 In Theory addressed gun control. Adding to what I said then, I don’t agree that the 2nd Amendment confers an absolute individual right to gun ownership, and believe that even with the Supreme Court’s regrettable decision, the government can greatly restrict guns without constitutional conflict.

It is surely evident to many, many Glendalians that Mayor Quintero is right when he says “the time has come for this country to reexamine easy access to guns.” Councilman Manoukian’s proposal is a chance to participate locally in this reexamination. We can end gun sales in Glendale’s Civic Auditorium and make horrors like Newtown a little less easy.

Roberta Medford
Atheist
Montrose

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It’s a drop in the bucket of course; but maybe it’s a place to start. Or maybe the show could be allowed, but not the sale of assault weapons at the show.

I understand that there are layers of complexity here; issues of budget and income which translate into what other good can be done by the city; issues of the intersection of city ordinance with state and federal law. But I’m a priest, not a lawyer or politician, and I get to speak from the ground of ethical ideals.

And speaking ethically, this much at least is obvious: There’s just no way that the ability to kill dozens of people at once should be considered an inviolable right. Outside military use, automatic and semi-automatic assault weapons should be banned.

I like the Jewish tradition of “building a fence” around the Torah (Pirkei Avot 1.1) — not only upholding the ethical standard itself, but guarding the paths that might lead to its violation. If “thou shalt not murder” is the commandment, (Exodus 20:13), then in order to build a fence around it, the ownership of weapons meant solely to inflict mass casualties should also be prohibited.

Personally, I’d love to see all guns banned. But I’ve had friends who are real hunters, and have friends who work in law enforcement and keep a weapon at home. And I know the lessons of history too, which tell us that if we banned all guns everywhere, it would give the government the terrifying power to turn the military against its citizens. I understand the need to redefine rather than abolish the 2nd Amendment.

But in the meantime, as a place to start, can’t we all agree that mass murder is bad, and should be prevented? Can’t we agree that criminals and crazy people shouldn’t be freely given the means of massacre? Couldn’t we just start there — today?

The Rev. Amy Pringle
St. George’s Episcopal Church
La Cañada Flintridge

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Samuel Colt said, “The good people in this world are very far from being satisfied with each other and my arms are the best peacemaker.” His now legendary revolver was then nicknamed “Peacemaker.” Colt’s perspective was that bad guys are less likely to prevail if their intended victims are likewise armed, thus enforcing peace.

Rather than disarming, wringing our hands, instituting gun-show bans, and making it difficult for good citizens to protect themselves from mental cases with weaponry, it would be better if people were well armed and supported. I don’t respect public servants who wrest freedoms and powers away from our people, especially for knee-jerk reactions to incidental cases of arms misuse.

The idea that without legal guns there’d be no gun massacres or mass destruction is absurd. As long as there are motor vehicles, gasoline, fire and sharp objects, there will always be blindsided moments of man’s inhumanity. These all could facilitate lethal mayhem, but nobody legislates against such indispensables. Of course, lawless people will always have guns.

One of the greatest deterrents to foreign invasion isn’t just our military, but our citizenry, which currently constitutes the largest impromptu armed force in the world. And ordinary people stop crime daily because they purchase gun-show firearms. They wait for background checks, so they can’t attend shows and walk away blasting people, but you’ll never hear of gun-show shooting sprees anyway. I wonder why?

Have you noticed, too, we always call for armed people to save us, hoping 911 alerts them quickly and they can finally arrive, hopefully before too late?

Christianity is a peaceful religion, but not one that promotes vulnerability to deadly sin. As Jesus said, “if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one” (Luke 22:36 NIV). Today’s sword is charged with gunpowder, and we have to buy one somewhere.

The Rev. Bryan Griem
Montrose Community Church
Montrose

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For reasons that I don’t begin to understand, a large number of people in the United States seem to have a fascination with guns. And, according to a recent Huffington Post article, deaths of children from guns in 2011 were six times the number of children killed in the recent Newtown killing of 20 children. These were not killings by someone exercising his or her right to bear arms for personal protection, nor can they be justified by the profitability of gun sales for the local economy.

I believe that Glendale Councilman Rafi Manoukian is motivated by the right instincts, but I am not sure that banning a single gun show in Glendale is going to make the kind difference that we need. The problem of gun violence is endemic in our country, and we must find a way to stop it. Guns do kill people, including our innocent children.

As a Unitarian Universalist who believes that killing is wrong, I can only be amazed at the people who say that we should not restrict the sale of guns because the right to bear arms is guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment to our U.S. Constitution. According to several sources that I researched, gun-related death rates in the United States are eight times higher than they are in countries that are economically and politically similar to it.

I don’t know the best way to limit violence perpetrated by those with guns. But I believe that allowing easy access to these lethal weapons is not the way to go. And I am convinced that we must find a way to remove this terrible scourge from our country. If we do not, we may well find that we are the land of the free and the home of the dead.

The Rev. Dr. Betty Stapleford
Unitarian Universalist Church of the Verdugo Hills
La Crescenta

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It’s important to consider the intent of the 2nd Amendment within its historical context. The amendment was not primarily for personal individual protection, sports use or even hunting, although these rights are protected. Having just emerged from the Revolutionary War, the founding fathers wanted to ensure the country would be able to defend itself against foreign invasions. A well-armed citizenry who could be called up was essential.

Secondly, they wanted to protect individual liberties against any possible governmental tyranny. They were very aware of European countries that had fallen victim to governmental abuse of power by disarming their citizens.

Times have changed and our society is quite different today. I see no purpose for assault weapons and huge ammunition clips other than to kill people. I think we should ban the private ownership of these types of weapons and clips. We should also pass legislation requiring a background check of every person who owns a gun.

I think this will help, although I have no illusion that it will solve the problem. Ultimately, violence is an issue that is rooted in the human heart and only God’s grace can produce a fundamental change. Until we begin to address this root issue, we will continue to suffer sporadic outbursts of senseless violence.

Glendale City Council banning an annual gun show is a “sympathetic gesture” in light of the recent Newtown tragedy, but it does nothing to deal with the difficult problem of firearms regulation.

Pastor Ché Ahn
HRock Church
Pasadena

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I think that Councilman Manoukian is being sensitive and responsive to the times in which we live. Why does the general populace need to be kept constantly abreast of the latest technology that has the potential to destroy each other? Why should such an exhibition take place where young people are still shedding the embedded prejudices and incomplete understandings with which they have been raised, in pursuit of more inclusive ethics that allow them to live peaceably in a larger more heterogeneous society?

I am sure that gun show spokesman Steve Friesen’s heart, along with the hearts of the rest of the nation, is indeed broken over the Newtown tragedy. I wonder what we as a community could contribute to Glendale that would replace that $54,473 that the show produces. Let’s see. There are approximately 200,000 people living in Glendale, people who want to live in safety. Roughly a 25 cents per person would replace that exhibition fee; a quarter per person might even save the life of a potential gun victim. As banal and ordinary as this sounds, I am sure that if the city of Glendale is really desperate for that revenue, any parent or friend who has lost a loved one to gun violence would contribute much more than a quarter to keep someone else’s loved one safe.

The Rev. Dr. William Thomas Jr.
Little White Chapel
Burbank

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There is an old saying about striking while the iron is hot. So I strongly support Rafi Manoukian’s proposal to ban gun shows at the Glendale Civic Auditorium. And good for him and his persistence. The iron is hot right now because the whole country is reeling from the tragedy at Newtown, Conn., less than two weeks ago. And we must do something about the easy access of guns to anybody.

Over this Christmas season one of my relatives was visiting and he mentioned reading about how Australia has restricted easy access to guns, and how one Australian writer referred to our easy access as “the American sickness.” I believe that what we have in our country right now is a certain kind of fundamentalism where the Constitution is concerned.

Some of us think that since the 2nd Amendment mentions the right to keep and bear arms, then we must not change what the Constitution says or even amend our understanding of it.

In my opinion, fundamentalism is always something to be leery of, whether it’s in politics or religion or in anything else. Is killing always wrong? Usually, but not always. Is lying always wrong? Usually, but not always.

The world has changed since the 18th century, and we must change, also, if we are to survive. Evolution has taught us that — but then I guess there are some who don’t believe in that concept, either. We’ve got trouble, friends, right here in America, and that’s trouble that begins with “T” and that rhymes with “G” as in guns.

The Rev. Skip Lindeman
La Cañada Congregational Church
La Canada Flintridge

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The effort of Glendale City Councilman Rafi Manoukian to prevent the gun show from taking place at the Glendale Civic Auditorium seems like a healthy first step for meaningful reduction of gun violence. Gun shows are responsible for many guns involved in violent crimes. In one year, approximately 26,000 firearms from gun shows were used in crime in the United States. At the tragic school shootings in Columbine, the guns used were purchased from private sellers at Denver gun shows.

There are additional steps that the U.S. could follow to reduce mass shootings. In Australia in 1996 strict assault weapons restrictions and background checks were passed into law and there has not been a single mass shooting in Australia in the last 16 years. While California voters closed the gun show loophole, gun shows are still a source of weapons used in violent crime in this state and all others.

Explosives, bottles of poison and dog fights are regulated and restricted so it should be possible to do the same for guns. Manoukian is taking a wise step and acting as a leader should by proposing laws for the public interest.

Steven Gibson
South Pasadena Atheist Meetup

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I’m sure every caring person in our country agrees that definitive steps should be taken in response to the massacre in Newtown and to similar tragedies we’ve seen in the recent past. The question is: What do we do?

Should we make guns harder to sell and purchase? Should we ban guns altogether? While I don’t have a definitive position on gun control, I really don’t see any reason to legally sell or possess weapons that are designed specifically to kill people. Virtually any gun could be used to hurt people, certainly, but then many have legitimate hunting and sporting uses that shouldn’t be banned.

Manoukian’s plan and many others that are similar might be helpful to a degree, but they always come down to addressing the symptoms of man’s spiritual diseases but not the cause. Laws make it harder for sinners to sin, but laws don’t change people’s hearts — and that’s where the real problem lies. If people didn’t sin we wouldn’t need laws. Paul wrote: “law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers...”

In this world we need laws that restrain people, but the ultimate answer is the work of God in our hearts that makes us reborn people. I hesitantly lean toward gun control laws, but I confidently rest upon the powerful news about Jesus Christ that changes the hearts of those who hear it and believe.

Pastor Jon Barta
Valley Baptist Church
Burbank

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I believe that Councilman Manoukian’s plan has merit — but on its own, it will not accomplish our goal of preventing violence in our community and country. A likely outcome of a gun show ban will be that the event will simply move to neighboring Burbank or Pasadena, minimizing the impact of this well-intentioned initiative.

I feel that we need to discuss the easy availability of firearms —specifically, military-style assault weapons — and legislate reasonable laws without trampling on the 2nd Amendment’s right to bear arms. We must also enact regulations to limit the gratuitous violence so prevalent in TV, movies, and video games, but we must do so without quashing the right to free speech. And we need to begin seriously considering mental health issues and overhaul our entire approach to this important subject.

But even positive developments on all of these fronts will not eradicate horrifying acts of violence like the tragedy in Newtown, Conn. It is critical for us as a nation to raise our moral values and inculcate our youth with a fundamental understanding that every single human being is created in the divine image and is a child of God. This central ideal raises the self-esteem of every person while at the same time creating a powerful impetus to cherish and protect human life as sacred. A good way to begin this process would be to establish a “moment of silence” in all schools across the nation. Without mandating religious thought, this time should be spent thinking about how to make our world a better place and what role each of us can play in achieving that objective.

I truly hope that the heartbreaking events at the Sandy Hook school will finally galvanize us to implement a meaningful, effective campaign to uplift the ethical state of all Americans. This effort must put a special focus on nurturing our children so that they reject the culture of violence and embrace the principle that each life has immeasurable value.

Rabbi Simcha Backman
Chabad Jewish Center
Glendale