Lewinsky Excerpts: A Smitten Intern Who ‘Fell in Love’
These are excerpts from the deposition by former White House intern Monica S. Lewinsky, dated Aug. 26. Some readers may be offended by parts of the testimony.
Question: The next encounter listed is Jan. 21 of ‘96, also on page 2 of the exhibit. Could you describe how that encounter occurred and what happened during the encounter?
Answer: Yes. I was--actually, I’m looking at this right now, and I think it might have been a Saturday--no, it was a Sunday. I’m sorry. Never mind. I think it might have been a Saturday, but it, it says here Sunday. I just noticed that.
I was--I had been in my office doing work, and I was leaving, leaving for the day. And as I was walking through the residence hall to go through the West Wing to the Old Executive Office Building, I heard his voice behind me. And either he called my name, or I just heard his voice and turned around, and he had just come off of the elevator and, I guess, was going back to his office.
So, we were, we were--we stopped, and we spoke as we continued to walk through the outdoor corridor by the Rose Garden. And when we got to the point where he turns left to then go into the Oval Office, he told me that I could go out this way with him, that I could leave through the, that I could leave through the Oval Office. So, we walked down the pathway together and then went into the Oval Office from there.
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Q: And could you describe your encounter once you got into the Oval Office.
A: Yes. We had, we had already had phone sex for the first time the week prior, and I was feeling a little bit insecure about whether he had liked it or didn’t like it, and I just--I felt in general that I didn’t know--from having spoken to him on the phone, you know, prior to having phone sex and from having had these encounters with him, I didn’t know if this was sort of developing into some kind of a longer-term relationship than what I thought it initially might have been; that maybe he had some regular girlfriend who was furloughed or something during the furlough.
And at that point, I, you know, I said to him, you know, I asked him why he doesn’t ask me any questions about myself, and doesn’t he, you know, is this just about sex, you know, because if it is, then I just want to know that; or do you have some interest in trying to get to know me as a person. And so he kind of laughed at the manner in which I was asking him and talking to him.
And we, we went into the back study and he was, he was waiting for a friend of his to come to the office, and he was talking about that he has a lot of--that he doesn’t get a lot of time to himself and he really cherishes the private times that he has with his friends, and he cherishes the time that he had with me, which seemed a little bit odd to me at that time.
But he, he was upset that day about the first soldier in Bosnia had been--I believe it was that day that it was the first soldier in Bosnia had been killed just recently, and he was very upset and moved. And so I was trying to comfort him.
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Q: When you say you thought it was odd that he said he cherished the time with you, why was that? Why did you think it was odd at that point?
A: Because I didn’t feel, I didn’t feel like he really knew me. We had spent time talking, but it didn’t seem--and, you know, he had asked some questions and I offered a lot of information about myself. But he didn’t seem to ask probing questions, when you’re trying to know someone. So, it seemed a little bit odd to me that he would sort of cherish this time, when he, you know, when I felt like he didn’t really even know me yet.
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Q: And at that point, sex was sort of the more dominant part of the relationship?
A: Yes.
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Q: Rather than as it became . . .
A: There was always a lot of joking that went on between us. And so we, you know, I mean, it was fun. When we were together it was fun. We would laugh and it would--we were very compatible sexually. And I’ve always felt that he was sort of my sexual soul mate, and that I just felt very connected to him when it came to those kinds of thing.
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Q: So on the Jan. 21 date . . .
A: Right.
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Q: How did it turn into your conversation and then go into actually having a sexual encounter?
A: I was in the middle of saying something and he just started kissing me. And, so, it was funny. It was, it was very funny.
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Q: And what room were you physically in at that time?
A: We were in the hallway. And we were kissing and oh, I had--because I was leaving, I was having a bad hair day, and this was actually the first time that I had the infamous beret on. And so I just said something to him about feeling stupid. Here I was standing here in this dumb hat, and he said that it wasn’t a dumb hat, that I looked cute and he liked it.
And so then he was kissing me, or we were kissing each other I guess, and I think again he, he fondled my breasts with his hands and his mouth.
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Q: Through clothing, or not through clothing?
A: I think it was always through clothing, and then eventually, it would be direct contact. So, it wouldn’t just be this immediate jump to being, you know, to contact. It was--there was sort of foreplay to the foreplay, if that makes sense.
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Q: Do you remember whether he removed any of your clothing on that occasion?
A: I think he--I remember him lifting my top. So--and he, he sort of--exposing my breasts.
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Q: Did he stimulate your genitals on that occasion?
A: No.
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Q: Did you perform oral sex on him or any kind of sex on him?
A: Yes. He unzipped his pants and sort of exposed himself and that--and then I performed oral sex.
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Q: Let me ask, on all of these occasions when you’ve described just the pants unzipped and exposing, is it fair to say that he still kept his pants on?
A: Yes.
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Q: It was just the zipper that . . .
A: Yes.
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Q: . . . was undone?
A: Right. And actually at one point during this encounter, I think someone came into the, to the Oval Office and he, you know, zipped up real quickly and went out and came back in, and I--this is probably too much information. I just--sorry.
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Q: And what happened?
A: I just remember laughing, because he had walked out there and he was visibly aroused, and I just thought it was funny. I mean it would, it wouldn’t necessarily be visible to anyone who just walked in, because they wouldn’t be looking at that, but it was just funny to me. So.
And then his--then someone--I think at that, someone came in to let him know that his friend had arrived. And so he asked me which way I wanted to leave and I said I was going to go. I was going to leave through [secretary Betty Currie’s] office. And we went into--we went from the back study through the Oval Office into Betty’s office area and he took me into Nancy Heinrich’s office and kissed me goodbye.
And then I went to go leave from, from Betty’s office, from the door into the hallway, to the West Wing hallway, but it was locked. So, I went back in to tell him. He was still in Nancy’s office. I went back into Nancy’s office to tell him the door was locked, and he was manually stimulating himself.
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Q: Did he cause himself to ejaculate at that point, or did you see that?
A: No.
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Q: But that was in Nancy Heinrich’s office?
A: Yes.
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Q: And what did you do when you saw that?
A: I smiled.
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Q: OK.
A: And I think we kissed again.
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Q: On that occasion, you mentioned that he did not touch your genitals at all. Was there any discussion about that?
A: No.
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Q: Then, did you leave from Nancy Heinrich’s office eventually?
A: I think I left through the--I left through the door in Betty’s office that goes out into the Rose Garden.
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Q: On this particular entry on Jan. 21, it lists that the entire encounter was approximately 30 to 40 minutes. Do you recall what portion of that would have been the sexual encounter part of it versus just talking?
A: Maybe 15 minutes?
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Q: You just can’t really estimate?
A: Exactly.
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Q: Let’s go now to Feb. 4 of 1996, the next bold date where there was a private encounter. Could you describe how that encounter came about and what happened?
A: Yes. I was in my office on Sunday and the president called me in the office and--from the residence, and told me that he was going to be going into the office later. And I think I asked him if I could come see him. And he said that would be fine, and then that he--oh, I think he was, he said he was going to go into the office in an hour and a half or so.
So, then he called me--it was actually maybe two or three hours later, because I remember I thought he forgot, maybe he had forgotten to call me and that--so. And when he called from the residence to say he was on his way, I told him that--I asked him if we could sort of bump into the hallway, bump into each other in the hallway on purpose this time, because when it happened accidentally, that seemed to work really well and I felt more comfortable doing that. So, that’s what we did. We both said, OK, I’m going to leave now.
And indeed we bumped into each other in the hall and went through the Rose Garden into the Oval Office. And I think we went right into the back office. The--when we got there.
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Q: When you say the back office, you mean the study?
A: Yes. And--let’s see. You know, I need to take a break.
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Q: OK. Let’s take a break.
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These are excerpts from Lewinsky’s grand jury testimony Aug. 20. Most of the questions come from members of the jury. Again, parts of the testimony may offend some readers.
The Dress
Q: Monica, why did you keep that black dress?
A: Blue.
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Q: Blue dress. Did you have reason to keep it?
A: Pardon?
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Q: The blue dress.
A: No, I didn’t have a reason. The reason--the dress--I didn’t realize--if I remember correctly, I didn’t really realize that there was anything on it until I went to go wear it again and I had gained too much weight that I couldn’t fit into it.
And it seemed sort of funny and I--it may sound silly, I have a lot of clothes. I don’t clean all my clothes right after I wear them, I usually don’t clean them until I know I am going to wear them again. And then I was going to wear it for Thanksgiving, because I had lost weight and I had--I had shown the dress to Linda [Tripp] at that point and had just sort of said to her, “Well, isn’t this . . .” You know, “Isn’t this stupid?” Or you know, “Look at this, isn’t this gross?” Or whatever. I don’t really remember what I said.
And she told me that I should put it in a safe deposit box because it could be evidence one day.
And I said that was ludicrous because I would never--I would never disclose that I had a relationship with the president; I would never need it.
And then, when Thanksgiving time came around and I told her that I was going to wear it for Thanksgiving, she told me that I looked fat in the dress; I shouldn’t wear it. She brought me a jacket from her closet so as to try to persuade me not to wear the dress.
So I ended up not wearing it and then I was going to clean it. I took it with me up to New York and was going to clean it up there and then this broke, so . . .
Falling in Love
Q: Your relationship with the president, did your mother at any time try to discourage the relationship?
A: Oh, yes.
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Q: Well, what kept it going? I mean, what kept it--you keeping it active or whatever?
A: I fell in love.
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Q: I beg your pardon? I couldn’t hear you.
A: I fell in love.
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Q: When you look at it now, was it love or a sexual obsession?
A: More love with a little bit of obsession. But definitely love.
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Q: Did you think that the president was in love with you also?
A: There was an occasion when I left the White House and I was pretty stunned at how I felt because I did think that.
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Q: Do you remember the date?
A: It was July 4, 1997.
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Q: Were you aware that he was having problems in his marriage? Did this ever spill over in the times that you were together? Did you get a feeling that something was not right, that . . .
(Lewinsky’s answer and a subsequent exchange with a juror are redacted.)
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Q: And today, Monica, do you still love the president?
A: Before Monday (Aug. 17, Clinton’s testimony and televised address), I would have said yes.
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Q: So then it is no?
A: I don’t know how I feel right now.
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Q: I guess I would like to know what happened Monday to make you just by Thursday change your mind so completely.
A: I don’t think it’s so much changed my mind. I think--it’s--it’s hard for me to feel that he has characterized this relationship as a service contract, and that was never something that I ever thought it was.
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Q: I’m sorry, you lost me already.
A: I’m sorry. I’m sorry. It’s--’from my understanding about what he testified to on Monday, not--just from press accounts, is that this was a--that this was a service contract, that all I did was perform oral sex on him and that that’s all that this relationship was. And it was a lot more than that to me and I thought it was a lot more than that.
And I think I felt--I was hurt that--that he didn’t even--sort of acknowledge me in his remarks. And even also--I mean, that has to do with, directly with me, but I thought he should have acknowledged all the other people that have gone through a lot of pain for seven months. I feel very responsible for a lot of what’s happened, you know, in the seven months, but I tried--I tried very hard to do what I could to not--to not hurt him. I’m still not answering your question.
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Q: Well, let’s--you said the relationship was more than oral sex. I mean, it wasn’t like you went out on dates or anything like that, like normal people, so what more was it?
A: Oh, we spent hours on the phone talking. It was emotional.
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Q: Phone sex?
A: Not always. On a few occasions, I mean, we were talking. I mean, interacting. I mean, talking about what we were thinking and feeling and doing and laughing.
We were very affectionate, even when--after he broke the relationship off in May, I mean, when I’d go to visit with him, we’d--you know, we’d hug each other a lot. You know, he always used to like to stroke my hair. He--we’d hold hands. We’d smile a lot. We discussed a variety--you know, a wide range of things.
So I mean, it was--there was a real component of a relationship to it and I just--I thought he had a beautiful soul. I just thought he was just this incredible person and when I looked at him I saw a little boy and--I don’t know what the truth is anymore.
And that’s I think, what I took away on Monday, was that I didn’t even know what the truth was. And so how could I know the truth of my love for someone if it was based on him being an actor?
A Confession
Q: It’s been reported in the papers that you had a relationship before similar to this, where a lot of hurt and pain came out of this, you know, a lot of hurt and pain toward a family.
And then you turn around and do it again. You’re young, you’re vibrant, I can’t figure out why you keep going after things that aren’t free, that aren’t obtainable.
A: Well, there’s sort of two parts to that, and just to clarify, the--the way Andy and Kater Bleiler portrayed everything on TV and through their lawyer was pretty inaccurate, so I don’t know much of what is part of your question.
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Q: The only part I know is that he was a married man with a wife and family.
A: That’s true.
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Q: Like I know about the president.
A: Mm-hmm.
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Q: He was a married man and it was no secret of that fact. But yet you want to talk about truth, a real component, honesty. It all seems so--like a fantasy. That’s why I asked you earlier about obsession.
A: That’s a hard question to answer, because obviously there’s--there’s work that I need to do on myself. There are obviously issues that--that--you know, a single young woman doesn’t have an affair with a married man because she’s normal, quote-unquote. But I think most people have issues, and that’s how mine manifested themselves.
It’s something I need to work on and I don’t think it’s right, it’s not right to have an affair with a married man. I never expected to fall in love with the president. I was surprised that I did.
And I didn’t--my intention had really been to come to Washington and start over, and I didn’t want to have another affair with a married man, because it was really painful. It was horrible. And I feel even worse about it now.
Apology and Forgiveness
Q: Monica, is there anything that you would like to add to your prior testimony?
A: I would, I think because of the public nature of how this investigation has been and the charges aired, that I would just like to say that no one ever asked me to lie, and I was never promised a job for my silence.
And that I’m sorry. I’m really sorry for everything that’s happened. (The witness begins to cry.) And I hate Linda Tripp.
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Q: Can I just say--I mean, I think I should seize this opportunity now, that we’ve all fallen short. We sin every day. I don’t care whether it’s murder, whether it’s affairs or whatever. And we get over that. You ask forgiveness and you go on.
There are some that are going to say that they don’t forgive you, but, “he whose sin”--you know--that’s how I feel about that. So to let you know from here, you have my forgiveness. Because we all fall short.
And that’s what I was trying to say. That’s what it’s about.
A: Thank you.
Jury Forewoman’s Goodbye
Forewoman: Basically, what we wanted to leave you with, because this will probably be your last visit to us, I hope, I hope I’m not going to have to do this any more and I hope you won’t have to do this any more, but we wanted to offer you a bouquet of good wishes that includes luck, success, happiness and blessings.
A: Thank you. (The witness begins to cry.) I appreciate all of your understanding for this situation and your--your ability to open your hearts and your minds and--and your souls. I appreciate that.