Council to Consider Laws to Restrict Begging : Ventura: Panhandlers who lie about how they would use a donation could be arrested under ordinances fashioned at city officials’ request.

Trying to prod beggars out of Ventura, the City Council will consider passing new laws Monday that severely limit panhandling and forbid sitting or lying down on city streets or sidewalks.

The new rules are part of the city’s continuing effort to ensure that homeless people bother tourists and residents as little as possible.

The council asked the city attorney weeks ago to draft the strictest ordinances the law allows, Mayor Tom Buford said, and these are the results.

“Sounds like he’s been fairly comprehensive,” Buford said. “That’s what we’ve asked. Now we’ll have to see how far we want to go.”

Councilwoman Rosa Lee Measures said she approved of many of the restrictions in the proposed laws.

Measures, who has spearheaded Ventura’s drive to rid the city of transients, said the city needs to have panhandlers “discontinue abusing citizens.”

As Measures describes it, the new laws would not outlaw panhandling--that would be a violation of civil liberties. But they would outlaw as many of the negative aspects of panhandling as possible, she said.

As drafted, the ordinances would allow police to cite or jail people who lie when they panhandle--saying, for instance that they will work for food when in fact they want only food and refuse to work.

Capt. Randy Adams said the ordinances would allow police to take action when residents make such complaints, as they do sporadically.

For example, if a complainant tells police that she gave a beggar money for food, but later sees the recipient spend it on alcohol, officers could arrest the panhandler or cite him for “false and misleading solicitation.”

“Some of these people aren’t even homeless,” Adams said, explaining why he thinks the laws are needed. “They are just acting destitute, trying to rip the public off.”

Adams could not say, however, what percentage of panhandlers might be lying so frequently.

Councilman Gary Tuttle said he found the idea of arresting panhandlers for fibbing a puzzling one.

“I’m not sure how we would enforce it,” he said, “or why we would care.”

Clyde Reynolds, the director of the Turning Point Foundation, which provides services to the homeless mentally ill, also criticized the proposed laws for being difficult to enforce.

“I don’t know that the police are going to watch people go into stores and make sure that they spend the right money on the right items,” he said.

The proposed laws also limit where and when begging is allowed: after sunrise but before sundown; at least 50 feet away from an automated teller machine and nowhere near people eating outdoors, standing in line for tickets or waiting at a bus stop.

It would be illegal to solicit anyone in a car for money. A panhandler could also be arrested or cited for soliciting on private property without the owner or tenant’s consent.

The laws also would forbid anyone from sitting or lying down on any public property or in a doorway or an entryway in most commercial areas of town and in city parks.

Some council members said Friday they found the proposed ordinance too restrictive.

“If you watch the pulse of this nation, this state or even this community,” said Councilman Gregory L. Carson, “it seems that’s the direction we’re going--to make things that are not socially acceptable as uncomfortable as possible.”

Tuttle said he was leery of the proposed laws.

“This is not who I am as a person,” he said. “I wouldn’t want somebody sleeping in my front door, so I understand the problem. On the other hand, if I didn’t have a home, I might sleep in a doorway, so I see where that comes from.

“It’s a complex issue.”

The City Council has also been discussing opening a homeless drop-in center somewhere in Ventura. On Monday night, the council is scheduled to discuss how to pay for such a center and who should be hired to run it.