Live chat: between two families

2007-08-06 15:04:08.0 Administrator: Hello and welcome to our chat on open adoption. We have with us subjects of Sonia Nazario’s story; adoptive mother Dorrie and adopted daughter Kendall McArthur and birth mother, Patti Dick

2007-08-06 15:04:27.0 Administrator: Sonia Nazario is also here to take questions. Here we go!

2007-08-06 15:04:30.0 jeni: Kendall, this is Jeni from the barn in high school. So ild to see a story about you! I’m in Scotland and 8 hours ahead, so I’ll need to get to sleep before this chat actually opens. I lost all your contact info in the move, but I’ll probably look up Dorrie and try to contact you that way. Woot!

2007-08-06 15:05:51.0 Kendall McArthur: Hi Jeni. Great to hear from you.

2007-08-06 15:05:56.0 Richard Whittier 2 boys 17 20 open adop: when challeneges are present with adolescents how do we balance tough love and the adoption seperation issues

2007-08-06 15:06:05.0 Richard Whittier 2 boys 17 20 open adop: the story is so REAL and TRUE for all of us in the middle of open adotions THANKS for sharing

2007-08-06 15:07:14.0 Dorothea McArthur: Tough love really helps an adoptee to know that they are cared about by the adoptive family.

2007-08-06 15:07:42.0 Steven: Kendall - As an adolescent growing up in the open adoption situation, did you worry about “who am I” and how did you accept that you belonged to two families?

2007-08-06 15:08:38.0 Kendall McArthur: No, I didn’t worry about who I am. I liked belonging to two different families. I got to be part of two different worlds.

2007-08-06 15:08:42.0 Wendy and Stan Levin: I read the open adoption story with much interest. In 1985, with the assistance with Sharon Roszia, we entered into an open adoption with the birthparents of our newborn daughter. Unlilke the story in the LA Times, our open adoption went very smoothly and greatly benefitted our now 22 year old daughter, and provided her daughter and us with an extended family of relatives who were very special to us.

2007-08-06 15:09:36.0 Dorothea McArthur: Adolescense is also a time to find out about birth family so they can consolidate a sense of self. Sometimes this feels paiful which is different from adolescent rebellion

2007-08-06 15:09:43.0 Jesse: In reading through your story Patti, if you had the wisdom and foresight that you currenly have now, would you have adopted given the emotional upheaval that you and your husband endured?

2007-08-06 15:11:24.0 Patti Dick: If I was in the same financial situation I was in then, then yes, I would do it all over again. Any adoption emotional in its own way, whether or not it is open or closed.

2007-08-06 15:11:32.0 susan g: Hi,Kendall. I read your story ,.I am glad things are finally going better and Dorie is a good father.

2007-08-06 15:11:37.0 Ken Herman: Hello - I enjoyed reading the article and hearing about all your lives and how each was touched. I too am adopted which took place in 1946 - when as you referred - things were closed and hard to discover. I had a private investigator find my birth parents at the age of 52 - 1998. What was interesting was that it gave me a much greater appreciation of who I am and of my adopted parents - in what they provided for me (not that I never appreciated them). What was interesting was that it gave me a looke at who I COULD have become and who I might in the future become. What I specifically mean is: my birth father had a horrible temper, and this gave me a wake up call. The story was so interewsting of finding my birth parents, that the LA Times did a complete story in So Cal Living Section on 10-10-99. Thanks again.....

2007-08-06 15:13:29.0 Dorothea McArthur: i am glad that you were able to seacch and find out about your birth family.

2007-08-06 15:13:31.0 Brandy: Hi Doretha, Patti and Kendall, thank you so much for sharing yuor Open Adoption story with the world. As an adoptee and a first mother in Open Adoption, I wonder if you could share with us what this journey has taught you and what you might do different now, with the benifit of hind sight?

2007-08-06 15:14:11.0 Interested Adopter: Way to go Kendall, Patti and Dorrie...I find your story very educational and important. I too am interested in hearing the answer to Brandy’s question.

2007-08-06 15:14:31.0 Kendall McArthur: Devin is doing well now. He is a personal trainer. He is the best father I could have hoped for.

2007-08-06 15:15:25.0 Dorothea McArthur: I think that our adoption would have been much easier if Patti and I were able to communicte better. Then Patti would not have had to leave in a way that made kendall feel relinquished again. A counselor could have helped us more.

2007-08-06 15:15:49.0 Wendy and Stan Levin: Kendall and Dorrie, do you think that Kendall would have had less insecure about possibly being “abandoned” by her adoptive family if you had been able to begin contact with Kendall’s birthmother right after her birth? Also, we want to thank you for being courageous the courageous pioneers in the field of open adoption. We know that our daughter would have had such a relatively smooth adolescence if she had not had the opportunity to have face to face contact with her birthparents that we maintened throughout her life thanks to families like yours that paved the way!

2007-08-06 15:16:49.0 Patti Dick: I agree with Dorrie, communication is definately the key.

2007-08-06 15:17:02.0 loley: To kendall- the story indicates that you saw a lot of your birth parents in yourself. Did you see any traits of your adoptive parents in yourself

2007-08-06 15:17:30.0 Kendall McArthur: I wouldn’t do anything different now. My life was normal for me. It’s just the way life was. I would have always wanted to do an open adoption.

2007-08-06 15:17:38.0 sandy: Congratulations, Ms. Nazario on a great story, and thank you to the family for willing to share their adoption experience. We have 2 openly adopted (but only with occasional birth parent communication) boys in their teens, and this was helpful.

2007-08-06 15:18:10.0 Richard Whittier 2 boys 17 20 open adop: Wendy and Stan we were with you and Sharon...our boys have great relationships with their birth parents..JUST DEALING with adolescents has been sooooooooooooo HARD

2007-08-06 15:19:14.0 Kendall McArthur: No. Well, I do parenting, the way I take care of my kid, is similar to the kind of parenting my mom Dorrie did.

2007-08-06 15:19:20.0 Stan: I was very moved by the story, since we have a similar (almost exact) story of our own (even including our good friend and adoption advisor Sharon Roszia), but I think our experience was much smoother fortunately. Have not yet read the Monday continuation, but will right after this session. Our open-adoption daughter is now 22 years old, and we have all had a wonderful open adoption experience. We, were greatly helped by Sharon Rozsia (mentioned in the TIMES story) in the process of adoption and actually took her short course on adoption. It was only a few weeks after taking our daughter home from the hospital a birth that the arranging attorney came to us with the request from the birth parents asking if we would be interested in an open adoption. We had already bonded with them during a few meeting prior to the birth.and then again at the hospital where the birth mother instructed the adoptive mother (my wife) as to how to swaddle the baby. It was a very special time. Everyone after 23 years has gone many different ways but we all stay in touch. In the early years, the four families and all the birth brothers and sisters and grandparents met at various holiday and birthday partys and we all became somewhat of an extended family.

2007-08-06 15:19:30.0 Jesse: Dorie, my husband and I adopted our son when he was a month old. He’s 9 now. While he knows that he is adopted, it is not something that we bring up. As far as we’re concerned, he’s our kid and we love him very much. He knows that when he is 18 that he will be able to contact his birthparents and that we will assist him. Up to this point, he has never acted out. We have always believed in being truthful with him. Are there things that we should be mindful of as he moves in adolescence?

2007-08-06 15:23:41.0 Dorothea McArthur: Yes, in order to consolodate a sense of self, an adoptee needs to know something about his/her family tree. If there is no information, adolescence can become much more difficult. Perhaps you might ask yuour son if he might need some of this information before he turns 18. Sometimes adoptees want to know but are afraid to say yes because they do not want to nurt thier adoptive parents. He is the one to know best what he needs. Ask him.

2007-08-06 15:23:53.0 JennaHatfield: Dorrie; What would you say to someone who said that your story is an example of why open adoption is confusing and detrimental to the adopted child, a reason as to why contact shouldn’t be held with the birth family? Obviously, there may have been things you would have done differently in retrospect but if you could go back and erase all contact, would you? Do you think that would be of a benefit to you, Kendall?

2007-08-06 15:25:45.0 Kendall McArthur: No I wouldn’t erase contact. With open adoption, there was never a question of where I came from.

2007-08-06 15:26:02.0 medora: i have a question for patti....do you feel you gave kendall away as is noted several times in the article by the author or do you feel you made “an adoption plan for her”? do you think there is a difference in those two terms?

2007-08-06 15:26:17.0 Dorothea McArthur: It was painful at times, but Kendall gained much more than she lost. I wish that Patti would have told me what concerned her about my parenting and we could have talked it out. Then I think it would have gone much more smoothly.

2007-08-06 15:29:52.0 Patti Dick: Medora, the term “adoption plan” didn’t exist 24 years ago so no, I don’t think there is a difference in the terms. Both of them mean the same thing, you do the best you can for your child under the circumstances you are in.

2007-08-06 15:30:01.0 jeannie: Dorothea, knowing what you do now and having endured so much turmoil, would you and your husband have chosen closed adoption?

2007-08-06 15:31:14.0 Dorothea McArthur: Absolutley not!

2007-08-06 15:31:23.0 teejay12: The adoption agency we are working with MN does open adoption. Over and over it has been emphasized to us that open adoption is about communication, honesty, relationships, but it is NOT about co-parenting. When I read the story, it seemed as if that distinction was very blurred in this case... Patti, did you see yourself as having certain parental rights as the birthmother? Dorie, how did you view those roles?

2007-08-06 15:32:40.0 Dorothea McArthur: Patti did an exceptional job not parenting Kendall when she was with us, almost to a fault.

2007-08-06 15:32:58.0 sandy: How did this article come about? Who initiated the idea?

2007-08-06 15:33:35.0 Patti Dick: Teejay12, because this was such a new idea in our society, there was not alot of guidance. Yes, in some ways I did feel as if I should have some parental rights but always tried to respect Dorrie and David as Kendall’s parents.

2007-08-06 15:33:44.0 sandy: Kendall, how do you feel about having your story on the front page?

2007-08-06 15:34:06.0 openmom2: Hello, sorry to come in late.

2007-08-06 15:34:20.0 Dorothea McArthur: The journalist came to talk with us. she was also interviewing other families. She picked us for better or worse.

2007-08-06 15:34:51.0 Kendall McArthur: I feel good. If we can help one person by putting the story out there, then we did our job.

2007-08-06 15:35:01.0 bmomto2: Kendall, my question is for you, I am a birthmother in a open adoption and looking back what is one thing that you would have changed with the open adoption experience?

2007-08-06 15:36:27.0 Kendall McArthur: I wouldn’t have changed anything. I liked it the way it was.

2007-08-06 15:36:39.0 Jon: Of all those involved, including the children, birth parents and adoptive parents, who do you think is benefitted most and who least by having an open adoption? Alternatively, do you think it is really what is best for everyone?

2007-08-06 15:38:41.0 beth: I think the concept benefits all members of the triad equally. The parties are known quatities to each other and don’t have to go through life wondering about things.

2007-08-06 15:40:19.0 Kendall McArthur: I think it was important for Patti to know me. Being a mom myself, I would want to know my child. I think it probably benefited Patti the most. She carried for me for nine months, and went through all that pain, and then if she wasn’t able to see me that would suck. I think it beneffited Patti and myself about the same. I liked knowing my sister, both my brother and sister. I think open adoption is best for everyone, but I don’t know what a closed adoption is like, so it’s hard to say.

2007-08-06 15:40:36.0 beth: I was deeply grateful when our birthmother called us to tell us her mother had been diagnosed with breast cancer, and to watch out for our child. That is information of an important nature we would have never known otherwise. She also rested easier knowing she could call us at any time, and our child benefitted by having lots of info about her origins.

2007-08-06 15:40:45.0 Dorothea McArthur: I think that everyone benefitted. David and I needed to understand Kendall’s issues, we wanted Patii to know us and Kendall. I think Kendall was the one who had the most pain. We did it for Kendall, It was hard for us at times, especially when Kendall acted out when patti retreated. I think there are a lot of degrees of openess for people to chose from.

2007-08-06 15:40:54.0 Kendall McArthur: I agree with what Beth says.

2007-08-06 15:41:03.0 LBailey: Dorthea, do you believe you should have set more limits during Kendall’s upbringing, as Patti suggested?

2007-08-06 15:41:16.0 Patti Dick: I think we all benefited in our own ways, Kendall because she knew us and never had to worry about where she came from, me because I always knew where she was. Dorrie and David got the brunt of things alot of the time.

2007-08-06 15:41:36.0 jeanne: I just got here. I am an adoptee with an adopted daughter.

2007-08-06 15:42:57.0 Kendall McArthur: I agree again with Beth--it’s good to know about health conditions.

2007-08-06 15:43:42.0 Dorothea McArthur: I certainly believein setting limits. Unfortunately, setting limits was sometimes very ineffective. It was more useful to wait until her bevavior calmed down, then Kendall became available to talk about the feelings underneath that set off the acting out. Sometimes nothing worked.

2007-08-06 15:43:57.0 AdrieG: It was a well written article cuz of its honesty--probably the first Id read that was this honest and didnt read like a romance novel. I think that many adoption agencies dont tell parents that opena doption can be like dealing with the relatives you get along with and those you do not, and negotiating the parameters of the contact itself. Kendalls reaction to being told about adoption was so similar to my friend’s daughters reaction at the same age. Im glad this article was published.

2007-08-06 15:44:44.0 Kendall McArthur: thank you.

2007-08-06 15:44:49.0 Dorothea McArthur: Cool!

2007-08-06 15:44:59.0 Patti Dick: Thank you!

2007-08-06 15:45:16.0 beth: Our daughter has tested us time and again in many ways like Kendall did, wanting to know if we would still love her and stick by her. She occasionally called her birthmother to run by potentially risky behavior she was considering, and our birthmother always said, “I will call your parents with this. You need to talk with them about this.” And she did. She never kept any secrets from us.

2007-08-06 15:46:04.0 kathy: I was fascinated with the article. I was forced to give up a baby when I was 18. I met him when I was 58......all those lost years....

2007-08-06 15:46:15.0 Dorothea McArthur: So Kendall is not the only one. Patti did the same with us.

2007-08-06 15:46:25.0 Kendall McArthur: Wow!

2007-08-06 15:46:45.0 bmomto2: Kendall. I noticed in the article that you dropped out of high school...Have you gotten your GED? Do you regret this now that you are older?

2007-08-06 15:47:50.0 Dorothea McArthur: Yes, that is why we did this article and I have written a book, just completed, entitled LOVE BEYOND LOVE, so that adoption triangle members do not have to be apart for so long.

2007-08-06 15:47:56.0 Kendall McArthur: No, I did not get my GED and I do not regret this now. I just don’t care about school. It’s just not my thing. I got a license to be a make-up artist. I’m too busy being a mom.

2007-08-06 15:48:13.0 openmom2: We have adopted 2 with very open relationships with grandparents; birthparents have chosen to not be involved.

2007-08-06 15:48:14.0 openmom2: Kendall, what message would you wish to give adoptive parents?

2007-08-06 15:49:53.0 Kendall McArthur: I think an open adoption is just the way to go.

2007-08-06 15:50:14.0 bmomto2: when is the book going to be available for purchase?

2007-08-06 15:51:44.0 AdrieG: Kendall I wanted to say always believe in yourself, and know that you’re worthy of anything you want for yourself in life. I know it sounds cheesy but I wanted to say it. Congratulations on becoming a makeup artist and raising your child. I was thrilled to read that you decided to parent.

2007-08-06 15:52:19.0 Dorothea McArthur: I am currently looking for a publisher. I just finished it last week. It is a collection of stories, ours, two from birthmothers, an adult reunion story, interview with adoption experts, and some essays and more.

2007-08-06 15:52:21.0 Kendall McArthur: Thanks for your support.

2007-08-06 15:52:27.0 Brandy: Patti, I am a first mother as well and I know all to well the emotional toll that OA can play on fist parents. I wonder what impact your OA has had on the relationship you have with your parented children and if they are at all resentful of the roll that Kendall plays in your life?

2007-08-06 15:54:29.0 Patti Dick: My children are not resentful at all, they have always loved having their sister in their lives. I truly believe they all benefitted from growing up with each other and now as adults they have close relationships with each other.

2007-08-06 15:54:37.0 amy: I found it interesting that most of the friction occurred between Dorrie and Patti. Where was Mr McArthur (can’t remember his first name) during this time?

2007-08-06 15:57:48.0 Dorothea McArthur: We were both the mothers. Patti used to talk with David too. He was in the background giving me suppport behind the scenes. He also had his own relationship with Kendall. they did things together. He is a wonderful granfather to Kaitlyn Rose now. He loves Kendall a lot. He has also helped me with the formatting of my manuscript through about six computers. He’s a quiet guy when it comes to dialogue about adoption issues.

2007-08-06 15:57:55.0 Richard Whittier 2 boys 17 20 open adop: Everyone thanks for sharing this is great

2007-08-06 15:57:58.0 medora: a question for all of you......how are you handling the “grandparent” issue? will “kaitlyn rose” (love the name) consider each of you her grandparents? what role do patti and dorrie want to play?

2007-08-06 15:59:24.0 Patti Dick: I think that is because we are both mothers. David was always supportive but at the same time he sort of stayed in the background.

2007-08-06 16:00:52.0 Dorothea McArthur: We love the fact that Kaitlyn has many many grandparents. They all love her and all spend time with her, especially the local ones.

2007-08-06 16:00:53.0 Kendall McArthur: They are all grandparents--Patti and George (Patti’s husband), known as Nanna and Papa, Dorrie and David (known as Gami and Grandfather). And Leo and Nina. They all play a big role.

2007-08-06 16:01:11.0 beth: I’m joining this a bit late, as I had trouble logging in. I am the mother of two children who joined our family by adoption. The first was born in the late 80s, so open adoption was already a concept we had heard of. Both our adoptions remain open, and we have had good communication for 20 years now.

2007-08-06 16:01:13.0 beth: We also encountered major adolescent behavior and ended up sending our daughter to a therapeutic boarding school. This required a great deal of family involvement and I believe we are all the better (and healthier) for it. We kept our birthmother in the loop for the 20 months she was there.

2007-08-06 16:01:32.0 beth: At one point in our daughter’s life I received a note from the birthmother’s grandmother (across the country). She essentially offered us a gift of their side of the family tree dating back to 1760 something. She said she did not want to intrude on our privacy, but thought we might want it for our daughter for later. I was thrilled to get it, and never felt an intrusion. I am no less my daughters’ mother just because they didn’t emerge from my body.

2007-08-06 16:01:42.0 Patti Dick: I am Kaitlyn’s Nana and my husband is her Papa. Kaitlyn is our grandchild and we love her. We are so blessed to be able to have her in our lives, if not for this adoption, this would not have been possible.

2007-08-06 16:02:20.0 Mary2: Kendall are you close with your brother and sister?

2007-08-06 16:03:17.0 Kendall McArthur: Yes, but my sister and I have our ups and downs.

2007-08-06 16:03:32.0 LD: Kendall, do you simply like the name “Kendall” better than “Miranda,” or was it a way to connect with Patti? Did you have any feelings about your parents renaming you?

2007-08-06 16:03:49.0 Dorothea McArthur: Beth, There are always two mothers. You are one of the mothers.

2007-08-06 16:05:26.0 Sammie: Hi. . . Sorry I am late.

2007-08-06 16:05:33.0 Kendall McArthur: No, I just simply liked the name Kendall. I just thought it fit me better. On your second question, I was a day old when my parents renamed me.

2007-08-06 16:05:48.0 tanya: This might sound naïve – but do you think there are cases where the issue of adoption is not a big deal for adopted kids? Or is it always a pretty big deal? (I’m considering adoption)

2007-08-06 16:07:01.0 Patti Dick: I think it is always going to be an emotional issue for the children, it’s how you as parents handle things that will make all the difference.

2007-08-06 16:07:21.0 Dorothea McArthur: It is always a big deal. Some adoptees are afraid to look at the feelings and decide not to say anything. Often the issue comes up again when the adoptee is pregnant.

2007-08-06 16:07:32.0 beth: are any of you concerned that with the highs and lows, the conflicts etc, that ensued, that some women will not want to get into the hornet’s nest and will not choose adoption?

2007-08-06 16:08:57.0 Kendall McArthur: I hope not.

2007-08-06 16:09:20.0 Dorothea McArthur: A lot of adoptive mothers choose to do a closed adoption. They hope that providing a good home will be enough for the adoptee. But the underlying loss is always there for all of us.

2007-08-06 16:09:30.0 demi: hi, i’m a first mother, promised and open adoption but was quickly shut out. i found my son on myspace, unfortunately I also was the one to tell him about his adoption. when I asked his parents why they didn’t tell him they said he was to fragile.

2007-08-06 16:09:40.0 Patti Dick: If that is the case, then maybe the choice to adopt was not right for them to begin with. Whether you have biological or adopted children there will always be conflicts and issues. It just depends on what you are comfortable with.

2007-08-06 16:10:01.0 molly: Patti, did you ever feel that it would have better to let Kendall have her new life with just 2 parents or did you always want to be involved in Kendall’s life?

2007-08-06 16:11:41.0 Patti Dick: I always wanted to be a part of Kendall’s life, I am very thankful that Dorrie and David had the courage to do an open adoption and to persevere even when things got tough.

2007-08-06 16:11:44.0 Jesse: Kendall, one question that my son asks periodically is why didn’t his birthparents want him. How did you settle this question for yourself?

2007-08-06 16:11:59.0 Dorothea McArthur: Very few adoptive families refuse to tell their children about adoption. When the child discovers the adoption later, they really fell that the trust has been betrayed. What else did the parents lie about? It is always better to be honest about something so important.

2007-08-06 16:13:32.0 Administrator: We will need to wrap up this chat in 2 minutes.

2007-08-06 16:13:57.0 Kendall McArthur: I got to talk to my birth mom about it.

2007-08-06 16:14:33.0 Sammie: Hi, I wanted to share something about my very successful closed adoption.

2007-08-06 16:14:37.0 Dorothea McArthur: Thank you all for your good questions. I hope that our answers have been ehlpful. Good luck for all of you if you attempt an open adoption.

2007-08-06 16:14:48.0 Kendall McArthur: Thanks for joining us in the live chat. Open Adoption Rocks!

2007-08-06 16:15:01.0 Sammie: My son knows he is adopted and is very comfortable with that fact. We do not have an open adoption.

2007-08-06 16:15:28.0 Administrator: Thank you all for your questions!

2007-08-06 16:15:30.0 Patti Dick: Thank you all for being part of our chat today, hope it was helpful to any of you considering an adoption.

2007-08-06 16:15:49.0 Administrator: And thank you Dorrie, Patti, Kendall and Sonia.

2007-08-06 16:15:53.0 beth: but Sammie, don’t you ever worry about health history and nagging questions later on?

2007-08-06 16:15:57.0 demi: thank you

2007-08-06 16:16:16.0 Dorothea McArthur: He is likely an adopttee who does not want to cause any trouble for himself or his parents. Ask him again over time.

2007-08-06 16:16:40.0 Sammie: No. When my son is an adult we will give the names and phone numbers of his birth parents.

2007-08-06 16:16:45.0 openmom2: Thank you for being pioneers!

2007-08-06 16:16:48.0 HeatherS: Thanks to all three of you for sharing with us.

2007-08-06 16:16:51.0 beth: Another book to look at is Making Room in Our Hearts by Micky Duxbury, about open adoption

2007-08-06 16:17:15.0 Dorothea McArthur: Thank you!

2007-08-06 16:17:35.0 beth: Please also consider breastfeeding new born adopted kids

2007-08-06 16:17:38.0 Sammie: I don’t worry about heath history. . . how would any history help?

2007-08-06 16:17:46.0 openmom2: Book for bio-grandparents?

2007-08-06 16:17:56.0 amy: I felt that this article was really well done and I applaud all of you for being so candid. It seems like there are situations where open adoption isn’t the right choice. I am a mother and there are things that I just don’t want to expose my son to (not yet anyway). I would personally struggle with exposing my child to a potentially toxic situation - situations that lead people to put babies up for adoption in the first place (drug abuse, violence, instability). What’s your take on that? Additionally, I give Patti credit for choosing adoption...after I gave birth to my son, I realized how difficult it would be to choose adoption...even if you know it’s the right decision. Kudos to you. Fortunately I have never had to make a decision like yours and I realize how difficult it must’ve been.

2007-08-06 16:18:03.0 Pat: Thank you! As a parent of 3 open adopted children I like to learn as much as I can to help them grow to be happy well adjusted adults. All the questions and comments open doors to better communication for everyone.

2007-08-06 16:18:13.0 sandy: Health history helped us with our son’s growth issues

2007-08-06 16:18:53.0 Administrator: Thank you! And sorry if we couldn’t get to all of your great questions.