Egypt’s race between education and catastrophe

The editorial board was joined recently by officials from the American University of Cairo. President David D. Arnold, along vice-presidents Nanci Martin and Kenneth Manotti, expanded on the university’s role in a turbulent and increasingly anti-American Egypt. The university is expanding its facilities to grow from a current population of about 5,000 students to about 6,300, and it has been in operation for nearly a century. Some highlights:

Knowledge is good

David Arnold: The university has always had two main pillars in terms of its mission. One has been to train and educate successive generations of leaders for Egypt and the Arab world. And I think that part of our mission is reflected in, you know, the fact that we have alumni like Suzanne Mubarak and Queen Rania, you know, the head of Saudi Aramco and, you know, very distinguished ambassadors and heads of major corporations. So, the foundation of that effort is really a strong U.S.-style liberal arts program.

The second is sort of to serve as a cultural and educational bridge between East and West, and in particular between the U.S. and the Arab world. So we now have more than 500 American students studying at the university. Some are just doing intensive Arabic, some are semester abroad students from different universities in the U.S. We have a number of American graduate students who are coming to do Middle East studies or studying, um, Islamic civilizations, or doing work in international development or international human rights. A variety of different fields.

How the war in Iraq

Jim Newton: This is probably jumping to the punchline here but how does uh, the war in Iraq and American presence in the Middle East generally, how does that play itself out on your campus?

David Arnold: I think it’s certainly created an atmosphere where American foreign policy is under increasing attack within the region. It’s certainly created a greater sense of anti-American sentiment generally in the Arab world. But because AUC has been there for 90 years, through good times and bad times, through World War II, through 1967, you know, periods where, where for a long time the American University of Cairo was the only American institution there — there wasn’t an American embassy, there wasn’t, so... We’re kind of an accepted part of the landscape. This is the second oldest university in Egypt, after Cairo University. And certainly is seen, widely and correctly, as the best and strongest university not only in Egypt but widely in the region. So folks are able to see past the immediate questions of American involvement in Iraq or U.S. foreign policy because their interest is in getting a high-quality education, having the ability to get good jobs, um, and you know, seeing AUC as a vehicle really for their long-term goals and aspirations.

Girls rule

Tim Cavanaugh: You mentioned 90 years. The American University of Beirut has this history of, in the distant past, uh, being the product of Protestant missionary work in the Middle East. Is AUC the same?

David Arnold: Very similar roots. AUB started in the 1860s, as a Presbyterian mission. AUC came along in the early teens. The plans were initially put in place before World War I, but they couldn’t do anything until the war was over, so it started in 1919. So it started as a joint venture, as far as I know the only joint venture between the Dutch Reform Church and the Presbyterian overseas missions.

Tim Cavanaugh: It’s about time for those two to get together.

David Arnold: Yeah, but it didn’t last! But very early on the university was established as non-sectarian institution. Early on they saw the merits of becoming a co-ed institution rather than just a school for young Egyptian gentlemen, so it became co-ed in the 1920s. In fact there’s a wonderful story about the first female student they admitted, who came in at the age of 16 in 1921 and promptly became the editor of the student newspaper, the head of the student union, swept up all the prizes at graduation, got a full scholarship to go off to Smith College in the United States. And the women students have been following that pattern ever since.

Tim Cavanaugh: Uh, what is happening these days with the rise of — well I guess it’s been on the rise for quite some time in Egypt — but Islamism, and are you seeing much pressure from that on campus?

David Arnold: We’re seeing. It’s part of the wider society. You know, there’s growing religious sentiment, whether it’s political Islam or just a stronger faith-based sentiment among the population as a whole I think you can debate. We have seen, for example, a demand for students to come with a face veil. And we have had a policy of not allowing that...

Tim Cavanaugh: Not allowing it or not requiring it?

David Arnold: Not allowing people to come fully veiled. And we unfortunately lost in a court case in Egypt, where they said no you can’t have a blanket prohibition on that, that that constitutes an infringement on religious freedom.

Jim Newton: What was the basis for that, for wanting to ban it?

David Arnold: We had been following a decree that Education Ministry had instituted, so in effect the court was reversing the Education Ministry.

Tim Cavanaugh: So it wasn’t just your campus?

David Arnold: No this was general, and we were just the proximate victims of following the government’s decrees. But um, but there is I think growing pressure from the Islamist movement for, you know, political reform, for opening up, so on and so forth. And AUC is very much a part of the wider society. So we do see that. We’ve had debates on issues from, you know, allocating prayer space on the campus, that sort of thing. But these are pretty much within manageable bounds.

Tim Cavanaugh: What’s the Christian/Muslim breakdown among students on campus?

David Arnold: We don’t break down the statistics because it’s pretty sensitive in Egypt. So we don’t, I mean we collect statistics on basically everything else...

Jim Newton: So this is an intentional non-collection...

David Arnold: Yeah, we don’t see the statistics on religious belief. Coptic Christians in Egypt are somewhere between 6% and 10% of the population. My guess is they may be slightly over-represented in the AUC student population. But not dramatically. International students bump it up as well. We’ve got about 60 different nationalities represented. Although Egyptians make up the bulk of the student population.

Campus politics

Tim Cavanaugh: You mentioned political science as a popular area of study, but there’s sort of a paradox, uh, for a political science major, that you are going to graduate into a, a system where politics are really calcified, and the same guy’s been president for going on four decades, uh. What’s, what is the, how do you guys handle that? I mean, when you’re talking about the Declaration of Independence or something or the constitution of Egypt even, how do you handle that?

David Arnold: Very straightforwardly. Our faculty are, you know, internationally recognized. It’s a good mix of American and Egyptian and other nationalities on the faculties. If you sit in on a political science course or discussion at AUC it would not differ significantly from a political science course or discussion at USC or UCLA. There is, and uh, it’s interesting: There’s very little limit or restriction on what can be debated, discussed, taught, lectured about, in the university, within the academic environment. The minute you go outside there are greater restrictions. And those lines are moving and changing in terms of what’s allowed, what’s not allowed, how much of freedom of the press is OK and how much is not OK, and where those boundaries are.

Tim Cavanaugh: Do you have a student newspaper?

David Arnold: We do. It’s very, very active. Students compete to become the editor of the student newspaper. It’s, I think it’s have good years and bad years...

Jim Newton: The same could be said about other newspapers...

David Arnold: As president and head of the association I shift between wanting to have a very strong, aggressive newspaper...

Jim Newton: Ha! Careful what you wish for.

David Arnold: Yeah, sometimes I’ll say No, it’s fine, let them be tame! It’s good!

Tim Cavanaugh: What would be something that is, what would be a restriction, not in the student newspaper but in a course, what would be something that you can’t get into?

David Arnold: I don’t think there’d be any strong boundaries. I mean, you know personal attacks on the president or the president’s family, those would be considered kind of out of bounds. Not to say that, you know, some professor couldn’t stand up and say I think Mubarak’s a jerk or whatever. But probably that would not be considered good form. But otherwise, you know, talking about the nature of autocratic regimes in the Arab world, you know. We have textbooks about Egyptian politics that are very, they’re western textbooks and materials, so it’s not. As I said, it’s different if you’re out making political stump speeches or rallying or having demonstrations in front of government buildings than having discussions in a classroom.

Nanci Martin: The president’s wife and his sons both went to AUC.

David Arnold: Yeah, the president’s son did both his graduate and his MBA at our university. So there’s some connection.

Tim Cavanaugh: Is Gamal still in line to succeed his father?

Nanci Martin: They say no.

David Arnold: Depends on who you ask. He’s certainly the most, the bulk of the speculation is that he would be the favored successor to his father. And there are a lot of folks in Egypt who say if only he weren’t the son of the president he’d be a really terrific candidate to take over. But the fact that he is Mubarak’s son is in some ways a handicap in terms of the kind of popular view. [...] He’s very western-oriented and reform-minded in terms of the policy agendas he’s pushing and where he sees Egypt heading. It’s hard to say how he would be. We’ve had our own experience with presidents who were very good on ideas but pretty lousy on implementation and the ability to marshal support.

Tim Cavanaugh: What kind of student was he?

David Arnold: I have no idea.

Nanci Martin: Queen Rania was number one in her class. She’s impressive.

Tim Cavanaugh: So it really is, only the girls do well at AUC?

Student exchange

Tim Cavanaugh: Do you have any Israeli students?

David Arnold: No we don’t, and the reason is that although Egypt and Israel have had kind of a formal peace agreement and recognition for some time, Egypt does not give student visas for Israeli students to come and study in Egypt. So unless the student has another passport, they’re not, they would not be given a student visa.

Jim Newton: Are there any other countries that Egypt will not accept students from?

David Arnold: Yeah, Iran is one. There are quite a few. It’s not just Israel. There are quite a few countries where the policy is to say, Nah, we don’t want kids from those countries coming here.

Jim Newton: Is there sentiment you can sense on campus today regarding the situation in Iran and its nuclear program?

David Arnold: Egypt and Iran have had issues for a long time. They do not have diplomatic ties or relations for a long time. And I think there was generally a feeling that Iran was really courting disaster in terms of its policies on the nuclear front. I think in some ways opinion in that area has softened a bit and there are now some sort of quiet discussions going about re-establishing diplomatic ties.

Jim Newton: It seems to be moving in the other direction in terms of the U.S. and Iran. What would cause a softening in attitudes in Egypt?

David Arnold: There are actually very strong economic reasons for Egypt and Iran to have friendlier relations. And in fact there has been a kind of Egyptian presence, diplomatic presence in Tehran. I traveled there and met with the Egyptian sort of liaison, under I think the rubric of the Arab league or one of the other Arab embassies in Tehran. So there are quiet relations going on. And the discussions that are going on predate all the current debate over Iran’s nuclear program.

[...]

Tim Cavanaugh: To get back to Israeli visas for a second, you’re building up a science and tech school. Given that it seems like you’re really want to promote as much exchange with the Israelis as possible.

David Arnold: Yeah, I think that’s really a case by case, scholar by scholar question, and you know, we are a place that really values academic freedom. And academic freedom really doesn’t respect boundaries very well. So at the same time we are bound by the fact that we exist in Egypt as guests of Egyptian government. And the Egyptian government exercises the right to issue visas or not issue visas to whomever they choose, basically. We recently agreed to host an Iraqi scholar and the Egyptian government turned down the visa for the Iraqi scholar to come and be based at AUC.

Tim Cavanaugh: Because they don’t recognize the current government or...

David Arnold: No, it’s more a concern about an influx of Iraqi refugees. So they have a different, whatever morning it is you have a different set of rules to deal with in terms of user restrictions. Our view is that if the Egyptian government will grant a visa, you know, the scholars and students and intellectuals are welcome at AUC.

Tim Cavanaugh: Do you lobby to expand the range of visas?

David Arnold: We will take things up on a quiet case-by-case basis. And we’ve had pretty good success when we feel strongly that there was a mistake for the government not to grant a visa. But we feel strongly that it’s more effective when it’s done quietly on an individual basis than publicly on a blanket basis.

Tim Cavanaugh: As a newspaper we believe everything should be done publicly in the loudest possible manner.

David Arnold: Well, you guys go for it. I gotta live there.

War on terrorism

Tim Cavanaugh: You know, leave aside whether we believe there’s a war on terror, that kind of stuff...

David Arnold: Do you have an opinion?

All: Ha ha ha!

Jim Newton: This is an opinion section!

Tim Cavanaugh: Well, if could say that there is, that we’re at a moment in history where modernity is in tension with a, you know, a religiously motivated other side, and that that tension encompasses use of force, it also encompasses a lot of cultural things. Something analogous to the Cold War as a lot of people have said. Where do you guys see yourselves in that, particularly given that you’re getting money from USAID?

David Arnold: I spoke yesterday at the World Affairs Council and included a wonderful quote from H.G. Wells: History is increasingly a race between education and catastrophe. I think that’s uh, we have that sense. We have two things we’re trying to do, the two main elements of our mission: Train and educate people who can analyze a situation and are comfortable in different cultural situation. And train more American scholars in understanding more about the history, the civilization, the deep roots of Islamic and Arab culture, and get beyond the headlines and CNN and the things that they say. There’s nothing new about that mission, but it’s never been more important or relevant than it’s been today. Institutions like AUC are the best possible face America can be putting forward in the Middle East and the best possible investment in a better and more prosperous future.