Ralph Nader
Ralph Nader, who will turn 52 next week, remains as committed to consumer issues as he was
in 1965, when his book “Unsafe at Any Speed,” with its stinging criticism of General Motors and the Corvair, propelled him to national prominence. In recent years, he has shifted focus from advocating to organizing, from protecting consumer interests to consolidating consumer power
Q: It seems that in the past five or 10 years you’ve kept a lower profile. Is that a fair assessment? A: Sure. When you’ve got a lot of groups that you’ve started, you want these groups to get some of the coverage, and the Lone Ranger image recedes. That’s one reason. The second is that I’ve been busy building and organizing instead of holding news conferences on exposes. I’m spending more and more time building CUBs (citizen utility boards) and PIRGs (public interest research groups).
Q: How does organizing CUBs and PIRGs differ from what you’ve done in the past?
A: There are various restraints on corporate abuse; one is regulatory, of course. Another is through the courts. A third would be labor unions, which have gotten very weak. And the one that I think is the most fundamental, which would make regulation work and make everything else better, is to network and organize private consumer power. Organizing this buyer power over companies can be accomplished by working through the policy structures or working in private negotiating sessions with Citicorp, Sears, Bank of America or General Motors, on changing services, products, rewriting installment loan contracts, getting better deals on group insurance and so on. That’s the seed corn. You can’t get anything done in Washington unless there’s some sort of passive support among the citizenry for the values that you’re trying to espouse. You can imagine what would occur if that support moved into an organizational dynamic. It could reshape the political economy.
Q: How?
A: Health-care systems would focus heavily on prevention and not on redundant prescriptions. There’d be more media access, technology would be more tolerant, pollution would be lower, energy would be used more efficiently, we’d move into a renewable-energy mode in this society, and the standard of living would be higher. All these things come from a buyer-sovereign society. We have a seller-sovereign society.
Q: So now you’ve got the structure for these consumer-clout groups. What’s holding you back?
A: Right now the biggest need is for organizational specialists--organizers to go out into the field. You know, there are a lot more ideas than there are organizationally skilled people. The founder of H & R Block was an organizational genius. McDonald’s, all these guys--it’s really their organizational ability to get one model and replicate it all over the country. That’s the biggest single missing ingredient; it takes organizational skill.
Q: Do you think the consumer process you advocate could replace the political process? A: I think it can shape the political process. What’s lacking is a breakthrough into the political process by what are called consumer issues. Once in a while, utility issues get through. But (President) Reagan, for example, escaped any accountability for the manner in which his administration broke up AT&T.;
Q: Please explain.
A: It’s on people’s minds--higher telephone rates, the threat of local measured service. There’s a lot of gouging going on, profiteering by local telephone companies and AT&T;, and none of it rebounds to Reagan, and he’s the guy who signed off on AT&T;’s version of the breakup. AT&T; put forth the plan that was accepted, and it’s having a multibillion-dollar ricochet effect throughout the country. He didn’t pay a vote penalty on that. The Democrats didn’t make it an issue. People are worried about bread-and-butter issues--the consumer side, not just unemployment.
Q: We are in the midst of massive deregulation of a variety of industries. Is this good or bad for the consumer?
A: Well, in certain areas in what was once called cartel regulation--buses, trains, trucks, airplanes--it’s generally good, except that maintenance problems with the airlines have got to be solved. You can’t deregulate the economic sector of an industry and at the same time allow the weakening of safety standards. Because of the deregulation--and they’re cutting corners to compete--you cut corners on safety, so in that sense it’s bad. But other than the safety and health area, it can be economically beneficial. Deregulation, or taking the federal cop off the corporate beat, can permit avoidable death, injury and disease to go unchecked. That’s been Reagan’s trademark. His policy has been to ignore the need to enforce and keep up to date the safety and health standards for the American people. Loosened auto safety regulations, drugs, more pollution, unsafe drinking water--these are all examples of his government’s indifference or outright antagonism. I think we’re going to start hearing more about re-regulation.
Q: What else does the consumer movement need to accomplish?
A: It would help if there were more of a consumer orientation in the schools--especially elementary schools. This would prepare individuals to look forward to buyer’s skills and group buying. See, we’re really bucking a seller-dominated economic culture. People go to school and take courses to be better sellers--whether they’re in accounting services, marketing, advertising, or doctors or lawyers. There aren’t any courses to be better buyers, so the buyer consciousness has got to be built up from scratch.
Q: Where have you had a recent impact?
A: I tried the buyer approach once Reagan put his foot down on the air-bag regulation. I got the General Services Administration to agree to buy 5,000 air-bag-equipped cars, and then I called Travelers, State Farm, Allstate and USAA and they put in orders for about 2,000; that’s creating a tremendous domino effect. I mean, the companies are now starting to fall into line about offering optional air bags. Chrysler is going to announce pretty soon, and four European manufacturers have announced. Honda’s getting closer. What it does is create a trend, and the last thing these companies want to be viewed as is lagging in technology or missing the boat. It isn’t that they’re really concerned about saving lives.
Q: Do you envision a time when you might run for office?
A: No. I’ve had a lot of opportunities. It’s more important to be a Johnny Appleseed, seeing more people involved. . . . Do you remember when someone asked Thomas Jefferson what his greatest achievement was? Do you know what he said? He founded the University of Virginia. I mean, he’s talking about institution-building. Here’s a man who was President of the United States, and he didn’t list it (as his greatest achievement).
Q: What’s been your biggest success in the last 20 years?
A: I suppose the most prominent one is auto safety. The federal programs have saved more than 150,000 lives since ’66 and inestimable injuries. The point is to let people know they can do the same thing if they want to. There are techniques to learn, and skills for developing a citizen action. They don’t have to just grumble through life saying you can’t fight Exxon or take on City Hall.
Q: Your biggest failure?
A: (Laughs.) The way you get significant successes is you develop an ability to endure significant losses. Most people get discouraged and depressed, and a loss knocks them out of the box.
Q: After 25 years at this, do you ever get tired or think of quitting? A: I have a very difficult time getting jaded. My only thoughts are of having more impact on more issues and getting more people into the cause--more safety, more health, more accountability, more. . . (Laughs)
Q: And your personal life?
A: I don’t have a personal life. I have only a civic life. Why would you want to waste time if you don’t have a family? Why would anybody want to waste time on a personal life when they can be saving lives and toilet-training GM? I mean, can you imagine anything more pleasurable? (Laughs.) It’s the weekend when you get the margin on these guys. They’re out at the country club. That’s when you get the edge. Most people look at work as a necessary drag. I don’t. I think it’s great fun.
