Honecker Told of Need for Reforms : Gorbachev Urges Him to Accept Reality; Protests in Cities

Soviet President Mikhail S. Gorbachev on Saturday warned East German leader Erich Honecker that the penalty of failing to introduce reforms could lead to “being punished” by the realities of life.

While the two leaders discussed the East German refugee crisis during their three-hour meeting, those realities were evident in the streets of Berlin, Dresden and Leipzig, where thousands demonstrated for freedom and political reforms. There were several clashes with police and an unknown number of injuries.

Here in the capital, thousands of young people marched from the huge Alexanderplatz to the Spree River across from the modern Palace of the Republic, where a reception was being given for foreign leaders who attended the nation’s 40th anniversary celebration Saturday.

Some youths shouted “Freedom! Freedom!” others “Gorby! Gorby!” and a few yelled at the police “Cops out!” and “Stasi (security police) out!” Many also made the V sign with their hands, which has taken on the meaning here of “We Shall Overcome.”

Several hundred police in the area linked arms across the Unter den Linden boulevard to keep the demonstrators from crossing the river bridge and approaching the palace itself.

Late Saturday, some scattered clashes between youthful protesters and police were reported in Leipzig, but details were scarce.

Also on Saturday, West German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher told West German television that he was receiving signals that the East Berlin regime may be about to ease up on emigration from the country.

In addition, the West German newspaper Bild reported that “massive expulsions” are being planned by the East German regime, according to information received by authorities in Bonn.

In the past, the East German government has chosen to expel people it considers “dissidents” and “troublemakers” rather than have them agitating for reforms inside the country.

The Gorbachev-Honecker conversations were reported at a press briefing by chief Soviet spokesman Gennady I. Gerasimov.

While Gerasimov used roundabout language and parried direct questions about the refugee crisis, which has seen tens of thousands of East Germans fleeing to West Germany this year, he did admit that the subject was broached. But he added, “We discussed problems in our own terms, not in terms of your headlines.”

At Odds Over Perestroika

Gorbachev and Honecker have long been at odds over the perestroika -style reforms that the Soviet leader would like to see introduced in other East European socialist states, including East Germany.

Honecker, however, believes East Germany has no need for the kind of reforms Gorbachev is introducing in the Soviet Union and that these would, in fact, loosen the tight Communist Party control on the country--with unforeseen but dire results.

In telling how Gorbachev brought up the subject, Gerasimov said the Soviet leader told Honecker: “ Perestroika is in full swing in our country, but this revolutionary course will not be supported (by the public) if we do not improve living conditions.

“If we ignore these things, we will be punished by life,” Gerasimov said.

The Soviet spokesman said Gorbachev wants to make society “breathe freely.”

He said that Honecker expressed “gratitude for the information” and that he “appreciated perestroika. “

Program for Party Congress

Gerasimov went out of his way to point out that East Germany has to develop a program for the Communist Party’s congress next year, which is scheduled to precede a national election.

He sidestepped questions about any specific advice Gorbachev may have given Honecker, and he did not answer a request for comments on reports of violence Friday in East German cities.

The worst scene of such violence was apparently in Dresden, where a reported 2,000 police cracked down on demonstrating youths who had gathered in the central mall near the main railroad station.

Witnesses said that the young people began taunting the police with chants of “ Vopos ! Vopos “--a disparaging slang term for the People’s Police. Some injuries and arrests were reported in the crackdown.

In East Berlin, some people moved out toward the Palace of the Republic to demonstrate during the reception for the foreign dignitaries, but in Alexanderplatz, several groups held a spirited but modulated discussion about changes they would like to see in the character of East Germany.

The scene was reminiscent of a “soapbox square” without the soapboxes. The people, all debating or talking with one another, raised various subjects that the three-week-old New Forum, a lose national organization that is calling for greater dialogue between East Germans and their government, wants to be made topics of public discussion.

Few expressed a desire to leave East Germany--but all wanted change in one form or another.