The Graying of KABC : As it turns 30, the talk-radio stronghold has loyal listeners--but will ratings droop as its key audience ages?

In many ways, it looked like a typical scene at the packed Ed Debevic’s diner in Beverly Hills: two casually dressed celebrities sitting around talking, struggling to be heard above the din of restaurant noise and trying to politely ignore the attentions of eager fans.

But there was a hyperactive oddness to this scene. The men--Ken Minyard and Bob Arthur-- weren’t talking to each other, but to hundreds of thousands of listeners in Los Angeles and Orange counties who had tuned them in on KABC-AM (790), the city’s talk-radio stronghold. “The Ken & Bob Company,” the news/humor troupe headed by Minyard and Arthur, was staging a remote breakfast broadcast commemorating the station’s 30th anniversary.

A maze of wires, lights and broadcasting equipment surrounded Minyard and Arthur as they sat at a long table in a corner. They squeezed their headsets to their ears to keep out the background blare of nearby conversations, wisecracking waitresses and 1960s music.

A throng of fans edged near the long table, hoping to get close to their idols, who have been at the station for more than 17 years. Elderly ladies in flowered dresses pointed excitedly to the pair as if they were teen-agers ogling Tom Cruise. An overweight man in a black T-shirt a size too small for him clutched an autograph book. A few fans knelt down right beside the men, smiling admiringly up at them. Arthur, the quieter, deeper-voiced one, looked down, smiled, then went on with the show.

The broadcast of “The Ken & Bob Company,” one of the city’s most highly rated radio morning shows, kicked off the celebration of the station that pioneered talk radio in Los Angeles. Festivities swing into full gear this month with special programming that will continue through the rest of the year.

Each of the station’s veteran personalities--including Minyard and Arthur, Michael Jackson, Ira Fistell, Dr. David Viscott and Ray Briem--will be presenting individual tributes and reflections on the station’s history. Several 90-second vignettes focusing on KABC’s coverage of important news events and interviews with alumni will also be aired.

The celebration is more than just a birthday party for an L.A. institution that offers a constant audio “town hall” for radio fans. KABC is also trumpeting its dominance of the local talk radio field, and its triumph over other stations that have had only limited success with the format.

No other Los Angeles station that has tinkered with the talk radio format--from KMPC-AM (710) in the early 1980s to current attempts by the powerful 50,000-watt KFI-AM (640)--has come close to dethroning the talking great-granddaddy of them all, industry watchers say. Having brought in about $35 million in advertising revenue in 1989, KABC is the highest billing station in Los Angeles and the second highest in the nation, radio analysts said.

The analysts say KABC’s bond with its older, middle-class and upper-middle-class audience is solid. Many of the personalities have been with KABC for nearly two decades or more, and listeners regard them as members of the family or as close friends.

Having the exclusive rights to broadcast Dodger baseball games has also aided tremendously in maintaining the station’s popularity, some analysts said.

“As to why KABC is so successful, I would say personality is No. 1, and the Dodgers are No. 2,” said Jim Duncan, who heads up Duncan’s American Radio Inc., an Indianapolis-based firm that publishes industry trade books about programming and economics.

Duncan said that KABC’s audience also appreciates the consistency of the personalities and the format. “Consistency of the product is awfully important, because it is so rare in the radio business,” he said.

However, it’s not all happy talk around KABC these days.

Station officials are still worried about the declining audience for AM radio in general, and about their own battle to maintain listener interest amid growing competition from FM radio, television information shows and sports events. They are also concerned about the failure to significantly increase KABC’s afternoon drive-time audience, despite several personality changes in recent years. Rumors continue to circulate that Ed (Superfan) Bieler, who was hired last year to replace the ailing “Wink and Bill Show,” which starred Wink Martindale and Bill Smith, may soon be handed the towel. And the number of listeners among older people in the 25-54 range and in the 35-64 range, two of KABC’s prime demographic targets, is down more than 12% from last spring.

In addition, a large portion of KABC’s audience is composed of elderly listeners and is slowly but surely dying off, industry officials said. About 54% of the audience is composed of listeners over 55 years old, while only 2% is composed of listeners between the ages of 12 and 24, according to Arbitron ratings.

KABC officials hope to improve that mix when they launch an aggressive and “contemporary” TV commercial campaign this month to attract younger listeners.

Most peculiar about KABC’s current reign is its bitter stance toward KFI, which has so far been unsuccessful in mounting a potent challenge to KABC since adopting a talk format in 1988.

KFI brought in controversial personalities to attract younger listeners, such as outspoken afternoon host Tom Leykis, conservative mid-morning syndicated host Rush Limbaugh, and late-night host Mother Love, who mixes her show with street-wise humor and advice.

Although KABC officials and personalities say they don’t see KFI as a viable threat, they harshly criticize the programming and personalities as if they were head-to-head combatants.

“My impression of it is, it stinks,” said Ray Briem, 60, KABC’s 24-year late-night conservative host who is also known as “the man who owns midnight.”

“I can’t believe that an operation like that is trying to gain favor in a sophisticated market,” Briem added. “It’s almost laughable. With the exception of Rush Limbaugh, they don’t do anything right. It’s shock programming with no talent.”

Jackson, a KABC staple for 24 years and one of its most popular personalities, said, “I remember turning them on in the afternoon some time ago, and I heard this guy . . . screaming on the air. They spent an hour on the subject, ‘Pubic hair--shave it or save it?’ It wasn’t worth listening to any more. It’s just shock and schlock.”

But KFI officials maintain that they are attracting a younger, hipper audience and that KABC is running scared, especially in the afternoon. They add that KABC’s reaction to their programming style may indicate that they are bothered it might be working.

“You bet I’m brash,” said Leykis. “That’s why I get all the good advertisers. We don’t want mausoleums or arthritic health centers as advertisers. I think KABC has some competent folks, and they have a longstanding reputation in the community. But they sound stale and old. Most of the hosts are afraid to go out on a limb.”

KABC General Manager and President George Green insisted that KFI is not a concern. “KFI is not a factor when it comes to what we do,” he said. “They’re not making any progress to a degree that they can ever hope of overtaking or being strongly competitive with us.”

For now, the quarterly Arbitron ratings bear him out. KABC finished fourth in the overall quarterly Arbitron ratings last month and has been consistently in the top 4 for the past 28 years.

KFI’s ratings with its previous music format were dismal, but they turned around in the spring of 1989, a year after the station switched to the talk format. KFI hit No. 20. KABC was No. 3 during the same period.

However, KFI doesn’t seem to be making much headway, according to the most recent quarterly Arbitrons. Their ratings remained the same for the 25-54 age group and the 35-54 age group, two of their target demographics. And they have dropped to No. 24 overall among people over 12 years old.

KFI General Manager Howard Neal discounted the significance of the overall quarterly Arbitron ratings.

“With the AM radio programming, you don’t broad-target your audience, you narrow-target your audience,” Neal said. “No one cares about a 12-plus audience. We’re gaining in the areas that we want to gain in.”

Neal maintained that KFI has emerged as a talk-radio force.

“The numbers in our target group--35-64--are going up,” Neal said. “We’re not competing 100% with KABC, but (with) all the talk elements in the L.A. market--talk radio stations, news stations. We’re creating a niche that’s different from KABC. We hope it works, and that’s it.”

Much of the bitterness between the stations is connected to a lawsuit that KABC filed in 1989 in U.S. District Court against KFI for trademark infringement. KABC won the suit, which prevented KFI from using the term Talkradio in conjunction with its call letters and dial position.

KABC had said in the suit that it had “invented and adopted” the Talkradio moniker and had spent millions of dollars in advertising and promotion using the term as its slogan. KFI had maintained that talk radio was a generic term that described a programming format. Now KFI uses the slogan “more stimulating talk radio.”

Duncan and other industry analysts say KABC has nothing to fear from KFI in terms of being overtaken in the ratings.

Green said: “We’re trusted by our listeners, we have a bond, and nothing will replace that. One of our target groups is people over 35, and they don’t give themselves easily to changing friends. Younger people are switching around all the time; they want music. But our audience is different, and as long as you don’t insult or offend them, they will thank you by listening. The loyalty to KABC is unmatched by any other format.”

Also, KABC personalities say they have been allowed freedom to pursue their own direction and have not been pressured by management to employ gimmicks to attract younger listeners.

Briem said, “I think it’s our professionalism that people respond to. We never talk down to them. We’re right on top of the news.”

KABC’s format has such credibility that politicians and news makers call them to get on the talk shows, said Jackson.

“We’re not predictable, we don’t bore the audience, and we have respect for them,” said Jackson, 56. “America is turning into a nation of news junkies, and they’re very sophisticated. That’s why we treat them with respect, and not shock and schlock.”

Some observers, including those who were at KABC from the very beginning, didn’t think the talk radio format would go very far, much less last for 30 years.

“No way did I think it would last this long,” said former general manager Ben Hoberman, who attended the “Ken & Bob” remote broadcast. “I’m as surprised as anyone else that it’s still around today.”

When Hoberman first established KABC, he said, “we thought it would appeal to a selective, qualitative audience--an audience of educated people with money. It was a competitive necessity to find something different and apart from all the other formats.”

At the time, there were more than 30 AM stations, 24 FM outlets and seven television channels.

The early KABC talk shows were more like monologues. Host Wendell Noble would offer reviews of recent books. Nutritionist Carlton Fredericks would discuss health and better listening. Pamela Mason would give her views on the entertainment industry and subjects of general interest.

Afterward, audience participation programs were developed. “Open Line” and “Night Line” with Reed Browning gave listeners a chance to sound off on any subject. Browning would mostly just listen without giving too much comment.

It was about three years until the interactive KABC shows came on the air. “People wanted to talk, and it just grew,” Hoberman said.

The station brought on the first radio psychologist, Dr. Toni Grant, who left the station just last year to write a book. “The Ken & Bob Company” put on remote broadcasts from as far away as London, where they held a bridal shower for Princess Di, and most recently from the Berlin Wall and the Goodwill Games in Seattle.

“We are our listeners’ educational institution,” Green said. “We offer them an avenue to a learning experience, coupled with laughs.”

The trick now for KABC will be to maintain the elements that made it successful while also trying to reach for younger listeners. Even as KABC continues to congratulate itself on its past, other stations such as KFI and smaller, less powerful stations such as KIEV-AM (870) and KGIL-AM (1260) continue to make their move to attract a more sizable talk-radio audience.

Green said that the station is conducting research to determine what younger listeners want. “We’ve got a solid staff now, but we’re also bringing in younger staff members,” he said. “We want youth and topicality. Whatever our listeners want to talk about--whether its politically oriented, child rearing or the safety of the community--that’s what we’ll talk about.

“It’s all about getting down with people. That’s our challenge.”