Warden of Prison in Lancaster Sees an Evolution in Approach

Otis Thurman is warden of the state’s newest prison, which is in Lancaster. A 32-year veteran correctional officer, Thurman is at the helm of a facility already bursting at the seams. Opened in February and designed for 2,400 inmates, the prison now houses 3,000 prisoners and will soon reach a population of 4,000. Thurman talked with Times staff writer John M. Glionna about the challenges of modern prison work.

Question: Have American prisons evolved over the years?

Answer: Yes. At one time the concept was to “jail ‘em and house ‘em.” Then we went through a period of rehabilitation and treatment, and currently we’re back to a modified version of housing inmates while providing them some educational and vocational programs.

Q. As an inmate, what programs could I expect to take advantage of here?

A. First of all, we have an elementary school test to find out where you are academically. Then we place you in a class on par with your test scores, and that might be elementary school through high school. You take some of those courses to prepare yourself for the vocational training programs. We have 38 vocational courses, everything from upholstery to drywall to electronics to painting, auto mechanics, auto painting. It goes on and on.

Q. If you look at prisons as factories, what’s manufactured here at this one?

A. We make laundry detergents. We make the fish-and-game tags and licenses. We also do laundry for various state hospitals.

Q. What’s on the cutting edge of correctional institutions statewide and can those qualities be found here?

A. This prison represents the cutting edge of correctional construction and design as it relates to high-technology security features--the way cellblocks are laid out, the gun posts within the cell blocks. It’s really designed to keep people in.

Q. As a warden, what can you do about the criminal culture? And if you don’t infiltrate and change this culture by trying to change the way a convict resolves his problems and deals with the world, aren’t you just making a smarter criminal?

A. I think that decision to change is made by the prisoner himself. Many times a prisoner comes in and gets involved in a lot of negative activities--gang activities, other kinds of things. Hopefully, at some point, they realize they’re going to get out one of these days and maybe they ought to think about what they’re gonna do when they get out.

The only thing we can do is try and provide the opportunity to learn something. Changing is going to be a decision they make themselves. A lot of times, I’ve seen people all of a sudden say, “I’m tired of this rap, and it’s time to do something different.” I don’t think it’s anything we do that impacts that. I think it’s just a decision they make.

Q. How do you maintain security on a large exercise yard?

A. Contrary to popular belief, most prisoners are not involved in illegal acts. Most of them want to come in, do their time without being involved in anything that may be dangerous to their health. It’s only a small percentage of folks we’re dealing with.

We have gun coverage on the yard and activities people can do to get involved in. The bad guys are going to do bad-guy things no matter what we do. The thing we have to do is protect the kind of folks not involved. Every inmate knows that on the yard there are five or six gunmen at any time. That’s a real deterrent, unless you’re in love with suicide scripts and want to get shot.

The design of this place keeps down blind spots where, in the old days, stabbings and assaults took place because there was no opportunity to see what was going on. With modern design, there are no blind spots. But some of the bad guys are going to do bad things, no matter who is watching.

Q. If you’re an average inmate at this prison, do you feel safe here?

A. It’s hard to say. I’ve never done any time. But if I were an inmate, I don’t think I would ever feel totally safe. There can be a lot of predators in a prison setting. Remember, they’re not here for doing nice things. We don’t have a lot of check writers or probation violators being locked up. We have people who are committing serious crimes. I’d say that 80% are drug-related crimes--selling drugs or doing burglaries for drugs or armed robberies for drugs--all those violent acts.

So, is it safe? The dangerous people are now doing time in a structured setting. They’re not overtly assaulting anyone, but that doesn’t mean they’re not pressuring people, trying to take things from them, those kinds of things.

Q. If I live within two miles of this prison, how safe should I feel?

A. I feel pretty safe. Over the course of my career, I’ve lived on the grounds at three different prisons and I felt absolutely safe because if there’s a walkaway or an escape of any kind, 99.9% of the time, this person is going to try and get as far away from this place as fast as possible because the potential of being apprehended greatly increases by him staying in this area.

Q. There was an escape here within months of the prison’s opening. How did you suffer one so quickly and did it surprise you?

A. It surprised me a lot. We’ve got folks in minimum-facility housing that are camp-eligible folks who would fight fires and be out on the fire line in an emergency. They’re lower-security folks, and in many cases in minimum-facility areas there are no fences around. These two guys were going to be released within a year, both of them. They had no record of any problems, but they went out a window and took off before count time. Don’t ask me why. I can’t understand it.

Q. Describe an inmate’s typical day in prison.

A. Well, you probably get up around 6 o’clock and have a short time to get ready for breakfast at 6:30. At 8 a.m. they go to their work assignments, school, vocational shops. More than 70% of people have jobs to go to. They’ll work to about 11:30 and have recall back to the cells to get a count. Then you go to lunch from a quarter of 12 to 1 p.m. Then you go back to cellblocks for a count and back to your work assignments for the afternoon. They work until 4 and come back to cellblock where they have free time before the 4:30 cell count. Dinner is at five. Then it’s back to the cellblock again, then release to various programs and religious groups of all kinds. The special interest activities come after dinner time. At 7:30 it’s back to the cellblock for the night to watch TV or play table games, take a shower or make phone calls. They’re in their cells by 8:30 for the night.

Q. What do you like about your work?

A. It’s interesting. Like most people, I never intended to be a warden. I was going to be a history teacher. But I had to pay back my school bills and saw a flyer that said correctional officer. I liked the business and remained in it. That was 32 years ago.

There’s a feeling of accomplishment when something goes right, when I see somebody in the store and they come up--of course, first I have to see what they’re coming up for--but most times it’s to say, “Hey, warden, this is my wife and kids. I’m working at K-mart. I’m doing good.” That’s a pretty good feeling.

Q. Do you have a secret to your success?

A. What I think has worked for me is being honest about everything I do. I’ve dealt with inmates in really horrible situations, and based on who I am, they know if I tell them something, they can bank it--whether it was bad for them or good for them. The secret is integrity and good common sense.

Because we’ve got people here who would take somebody out in a box, who would do anything. So you’ve got to stay in the real world. The potential for something bad is on the verge of happening as we speak, so you can’t lose sight of that. You have 3,000 people here against their will. When you add in the personalities, the fact of who they are, we’re probably having a fight right now. I just hope nobody’s getting stabbed.