Gun Exchanges Catch On--but Are They Effective? : Weapons: New York’s firearms-for-merchandise plan will be tried in L.A. Skeptics doubt it will cut crime.

Guns were good for concert tickets last month. In the near future they might be exchangeable for sneakers, boots, toys, jeans and even cars.

Amid mounting frustration with the urban arms race, a new gun control technique has emerged in Los Angeles and nationwide that sidesteps the legislative process and plucks guns off the streets one by one.

The gun exchanges are rounding up firearms by the hundreds--412 over a five-day period in Los Angeles last month, 68 in one day in Oakland and more than 1,000 so far in a guns-for-toys program in the gritty 34th Precinct of New York City.

Representatives from the National Assn. for the Advancement of Colored People joined top Los Angeles officials Tuesday in announcing that New York City’s version, which started with $100 gift certificates for toys and has grown to include other merchandise, will be expanding to Los Angeles in the coming months.

“Kids are killing other kids for things they need,” said Fernando Mateo, a carpet store owner who spearheaded the New York program. “We need people who have weapons to look at that weapon and say, ‘I’m going to exchange this for something I need.’ ”

Organizers said that Toys R Us and Foot Locker have already agreed to join the proposed “guns-for-goods” project. During a news conference Tuesday, they sought to persuade other companies, from McDonald’s to the Gap, to sign on.

The gun swaps come as Washington is also grappling with the gun issue. The White House proposed a huge increase in licensing fees for gun dealers Tuesday and Congress recently imposed a five-day waiting period for handgun purchases. Some congressional leaders are also pressing for a ban on assault weapons and stiffer sentences for criminals who use guns.

Some experts who study violence describe the gun exchanges as one small step in the right direction, while others dismiss the swaps as little more than publicity stunts in a county where one in five people owns a gun.

“Something is better than nothing,” said Ronald K. Barrett, a professor at Loyola Marymount University who studies homicidal violence. “In a small way it will contribute something to moving us in the direction we should be going. But it’s not going to solve the problem completely.”

Barrett likened the exchanges to other peripheral efforts to reduce violence--such as the announcements by radio stations that they will not play violent rap songs and efforts to reduce the amount of violence on television and in the movies.

The exchanges attract huge amounts of attention to the issue of guns--there were 15 television cameras at Tuesday’s news conference in City Hall--and that helps the fight against violence, other observers said. “Is this the best way to approach the problem? Of course not,” said Malcolm W. Klein, director of the USC Center for Research on Crime and Social Control. “But is this a step? Yes. It’s making a statement. It’s saying that getting guns off the streets matters to us.”

At the Pueblo del Rio Housing Project, which Mateo and others toured to gauge community sentiment, many residents expressed skepticism. Shortly before the officials arrived, a mail carrier had been robbed by a man armed with a shotgun.

“You have to have a gun around here,” said Lamont Gooden, 35, who keeps a .357 magnum for protection. “The criminals aren’t going to turn in their guns. They’d be thrilled if all of us innocent people weren’t armed.”

Gooden said there is no way he would turn in his gun for tickets, jeans or toys. He said he might consider surrendering the weapon for a full refund of his $200 purchase price. Then, he said, he would go out and buy another.

Matthew Brown, one of the tenant leaders at Pueblo del Rio, said he doubts there will be an outpouring of guns among those in the projects who rely on guns for safety and know the value of their guns on the street.

“You have to guarantee these people’s safety,” Brown told Mateo and Benjamin F. Chavis, executive director of the NAACP. “If they are going to give up their protection, what are you going to give them?”

Gun exchanges are not new, although the idea has received a burst of renewed interest in recent months. Dist. Atty. Gil Garcetti, Police Chief Willie L. Williams and Mayor Richard Riordan have all embraced the concept in the past month.

In recent years, numerous police departments across the country have held brief amnesty programs to round up guns from those who might otherwise be reluctant to surrender them. Small monetary incentives were sometimes included.

During the Los Angeles mayor’s race in 1989, Councilman Nate Holden pledged to buy back military-style assault weapons for $300 apiece. A radio station then offered a $1,000 reward to the first person to surrender such a weapon.

At the time, even though more than 100 Uzis and AK-47s would be eventually collected, some dismissed the buyback as a publicity stunt.

“It’s spitballs at battleships,” said then-Mayor Tom Bradley’s spokeswoman, Dee Dee Myers, who dismissed the plan as a “distraction (from) the real solution.” Myers is now President Clinton’s spokeswoman.

Last month’s guns-for-tickets swap in Los Angeles--which brought in 110 rifles, 251 handguns, two assault rifles and 49 shotguns--was declared a success by top police officials. Williams is reviewing the results before deciding whether to sponsor a similar effort.

But some officers grumbled that it was primarily law-abiding citizens with extra weapons lying around who turned them in. The criminal element stayed home.

The New York program began when Mateo’s 14-year-old son told his father that he would give up his Christmas gifts if he could get someone to surrender a single gun.

Mateo bought up $5,000 worth of Toys R Us gift certificates but then the concept caught on and numerous other benefactors came aboard. New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani even kicked in $5,000 of his campaign money for the effort.

Now, gun donors get their choice of a $100 gift certificate from Kaybee Toys, Foot Locker, Dial-a-Mattress or Toys R Us. After the program expands citywide, organizers in New York hope to increase the incentive still further by raffling off a car to donors.

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