Conversation WITH SANDRA G. BACA : ‘These Men Come From Such Violent Environments’
Question: What is the men’s most frequent explanation for what they’ve done?
Answer: The standard one is, “She provoked me. She wouldn’t shut up. She got into my face and dared me to hit her. If she had stopped nagging, I wouldn’t have done it.”
Q: What are you trying to get the men to understand? A: Getting across the definition of physical abuse: It’s pushing, kicking, shoving, biting, pulling her hair, grabbing her, throwing things, threatening her, pulling a gun on her, strangling her, trying to run her over, driving recklessly. It’s common to hear them say, “I didn’t hit her. All I did is push her,” but by definition that is a violent act in the state of California.
Q: You say that 80% of abuse in the home is emotional. Does this constitute swearing at somebody, belittling them?
A: That would be verbal abuse, the name calling. That’s where you “thing-ify” her, call her the “four favorites,” all denigrating words, the mildest being “whore.” That opens the doors to the physical abuse. After you’ve thing-ified her, it’s easy to hit her because you are convinced that she is a piece of garbage.
One man said the other day, “I told my wife that she just wasn’t the same anymore, sexually, after she had two kids.” She got very, very hurt and he couldn’t understand why. Sometimes we’ll role-play. We’ll ask them, “Tell us what you did to her--use the same tone of voice, use the same kind of gestures--and then let’s turn it around and have somebody do it to you.”
Q: What’s the worst reaction you’ve ever encountered?
A: I have never been physically harmed by anybody (here), but I have been emotionally battered. One will act as a lightning rod and the whole group will turn on me: “You’re full of it. You’re a man-hater.” They question my character, they question my sexuality, they question my competence. They will do an emotional job on me.
When I disagree with them, they start getting frustrated--that’s what they do best. And I will say to them, “Is that how you do your wife?”
They have not learned to use words as a negotiation skill. A lot of these men come from such violent environments that their behavior is not disturbing to them at all.
Q: I know this is a tricky area, but do you find any cultural differences between the men who come here?
A: There are some cultural differences. Black Americans are much more accepting of the blending of the roles. They also are much more into the extended family and believe in the concept of community parenting and community disciplining. Black men are very tolerant of having their woman go and work. Historically, that’s always happened. In the men I have seen, there is not that much demand for services, (such as) “She’s got to have my food ready when I get home.”
A lot of Latino men are here because they hit their woman because she did not have dinner ready when they came home. With Latinos, we come from a culture where the woman’s role is taking care of the children. When it comes to everything else, the man does it. We see a change in this country when they come here; the woman is much more easily able to pick up the language and will find a job, even if it’s working as a housekeeper, whereas for Latino men it’s much harder. If their identity has been that of the bread-winner and they’re not bringing in the money, there’s going to be a lot of hard feelings.
Q: What about Anglo men?
A: We don’t have many in this office. I think it’s because of where we’re located. We have some Russians. Their attitude is, “How come women can do all this stuff?”
Q: How did you get into this work?
A: I was in an abusive marriage. Because I had to learn to identify to survive with an abuser, I can identify how they were thinking, where they were coming from. I come across as a very strong and independent woman. I haven’t always been this way. There was a time that I was very dependent on this man. I had four children by the time I was 21. Nobody seemed to think that what he was doing to me was a problem, so I convinced myself that it wasn’t a problem.
If I allowed myself, I could sit down and have a pity party. I am trying to use my energy to help women, to understand violence and how we do it.
What Her Clients Say
‘It took a lot of tension out of me. I rarely lose my temper anymore. I take time-outs, work the program in my mind.’ --Charlie
‘I think I’ve already learned my lesson. . . . I don’t think it’s fair that everyone has to come to 52 sessions.’ --Anthony
‘I didn’t believe in this program when I first came. Now I have realized there is a lot of violence in each of us.’ --Manuel
‘The best thing is that I understand how to not let someone provoke me into a situation where I’m the loser’. --Murvin
‘I thought it was going to be more structured. It’s more about having people examine you, you examine them, and talk it out.’--Jason