Shultz Admits Taking Part in ‘Full-Scale’ Iran Talks

Secretary of State George P. Shultz, while admitting that he took part in “two full-scale discussions” on secret Iran policy, refused Friday to say how much he knew about President Reagan’s plan to sell arms to Iran and said the subject was best left to officials in Washington.

Shultz, who met for four hours with External Affairs Minister Joe Clark, was questioned by American and Canadian reporters about the arms sale.

“I’m not going to respond to questions about various Iranian-related issues,” Shultz said. “The people closest to that subject have been testifying in Washington and it’s best to leave the subject there.”

Shultz had spoken out on Iran after the White House and State Department attempted to allay speculation that he was out of step with the Administration over Reagan’s authorization of small arms shipments to Iran.

In a television interview last week, Shultz said he opposed further arms shipments to Iran but cautioned that he did not speak for the Administration on the issue, raising questions about his role in U.S. foreign policy.

Canada was not one of the countries involved in the arms deal and the subject was not raised during meetings with Shultz, Clark said.

But Clark said the Canadian government was investigating the possibility that helicopter parts shipped to Iran by the Canadian subsidiary of United Technologies Corp. of Hartford, Conn., had been used for military rather than commercial purposes.

UTC has said it received permission from the U.S. and Canadian governments to ship an order for commercial aircraft parts to Iran Helicopter Support and Renewal Inc. The order was partially fulfilled last Oct. 29, although Clark said Friday that the parts may not have reached their destination.

He said the Canadian company, Pratt & Whitney Canada, located near Montreal, was trying to obtain an end-user certificate guaranteeing that the parts would be used commercially.

Distances Himself

Government officials also were discussing the matter with Iranian consular officials in Ottawa and representatives of Iran Helicopter, Clark said.

Shultz also said Friday that he took part in two “full-scale discussions” last winter on the secret U.S. policy toward Iran, but continued to distance himself from involvement in the affair.

He also denied a report in Friday’s Los Angeles Times that he asked President Reagan to fire Adm. John Poindexter, the White House national security adviser and one of the chief architects of the arms sale to Iran.

‘Story Not True’

“That story is not true,” Shultz told reporters aboard his airplane en route from Washington to Canada where he held talks with External Affairs Minister Joe Clark.

Shultz has expressed opposition to the plan to send military equipment to Iran and has said previously that he had only “fragmentary knowledge” of the operation. Giving a bit more detail Friday, he said, “There were discussions and I participated in two of them that were full-scale discussions.”

Those meetings were on Dec. 6, 1985, and last Jan. 7, said his spokesman, Charles E. Redman. On Jan. 17, Reagan signed an order permitting the military equipment sales to Iran.

Declined to Answer

Asked specifically whether he was present when a determination to send arms to Iran was made, Shultz declined to answer.

Clark, seated beside Shultz at a news conference at the end of their talks, said the Iranian issue did not come up at the meetings.

Critics of the arms sale have said that it will disturb allied nations, such as Canada, that have joined in an arms embargo against Iran.

Questions about Shultz’s involvement were raised Thursday when former National Security Adviser Robert C. McFarlane said the secretary of state “repeatedly” was informed about the operation.

Shultz would not respond directly to McFarlane’s assertions, nor did he give any indication of what he said in the two meetings he said he attended.

Shultz did, however, suggest that lack of State Department knowledge of the affair had a mixed effect on the policy.

“If a great many people are involved, it’s not possible to carry it out in a secure way,” he said. On the other hand, he added, there were fewer people involved “to give you the talent in the government who know about the subject.”

To underscore what he said was lack of State Department involvement, Shultz said he and his aides were taking no active part in the current, belated effort by the Administration to inform Congress about the arms shipments.

Central Intelligence Agency Director William J. Casey testified on Capitol Hill on Friday and Shultz said the only State Department involvement at that hearing was Undersecretary of State Michael Armacost’s presence as an observer.

“I am letting this question alone,” Shultz said. “People are testifying about it, those who are the ones involved in it, whose agencies were. And that is where the action is.”

Several influential members of Congress, including members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, have accused Reagan of sidestepping rules requiring him to inform Congress about covert actions.

They also have called for reforms in the National Security Council apparatus to limit that White House group’s influence in making decisions like selling weapons to Iran.

Shultz said, however: “The policy process has worked rather well. On the whole I think it’s gone on fine.”

As examples, he mentioned formulation of arms control policy and efforts to deal with Soviet espionage in the United States. Shultz’s views were adopted by the Administration in both of those areas.

The secretary’s comments were his first in public since Reagan said at a news conference on Wednesday that no more arms would be shipped to Iran. The President also denied published reports that Shultz had threatened to resign to protest the former policy.

On those issues, Shultz said, “It was my opinion that arms shipments to Iran should cease and the President has said that that is his view.”

Shultz would not get into whether he threatened to resign unless the arms sales were halted. “If there is to be any discussion of a subject like that, it will be between me and the President,” he said.

Shultz and Clark signed an aviation security agreement, pledging the two countries to provide information and assistance to prevent illegal acts threatening the safety of air passengers, airports and air navigation facilities.

In the area of trade, Shultz said the United States was committed to negotiating a free-trade pact with Canada, despite recent problems, such as a decision by the Commerce Department to impose a 15% duty on Canadian exports of softwood lumber.