Has No Regrets, Poindexter Says : Refuses to Apologize for His Role, Sees Reagan Credibility as Intact

Former National Security Adviser John M. Poindexter, taking a more defiant tack than President Reagan, told the congressional investigating committees Monday that he has no regrets and makes no apologies for any aspect of his role in the Iran- contra affair.

In addition, Poindexter, whose testimony is expected to conclude today, denied the suggestion of a leading Republican Senate committee member that the President’s credibility has been damaged by the affair.

“I think the President is going to come out better for it,” he asserted.

Sums Up Attitude

The normally mild-mannered rear admiral angrily summed up his general attitude toward the affair after Sen. Paul S. Trible Jr. (R-Va.), accused him of an “unapologetic embrace of untruth.”

“I don’t have any regrets for anything that I did,” Poindexter insisted. “I think the actions that I took were in the long-term interests of the country and I’m not going to change my mind. And I’m not going to be apologetic about it.”

His unrepentant, hard-line approach stunned many members of the committees because it went far beyond the position taken by the White House or by the President’s other supporters.

Even the committees’ most conservative members, such as Sen. Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah), have said that Poindexter and other Administration officials made mistakes in the Iran-contra affair. The President himself acknowledged in his State of the Union speech on Jan. 27 that he regretted “mistakes were made.”

Sen. David L. Boren (D-Okla.), chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said he hopes that Poindexter eventually will see he had made a mistake by deciding to divert profits from the Iranian arms sales to the Nicaraguan resistance without informing Reagan.

“It really did surprise me when you said: ‘I have no regrets,’ ” Boren said, “because it seems to me that well-intentioned as you might have been at the time, it’s very clear that this decision was . . . a highly controversial decision. It’s been the flash point of the whole inquiry.”

But Poindexter held his ground. “I frankly don’t think in the whole scheme of things it’s that important a decision,” he said. “The thing that’s made it important in your eyes . . . is the overreaction of the media to it, and members of Congress have to react to the media.”

Met With North, Casey

Also during his fourth day of testimony:

--Poindexter acknowledged a previously undisclosed luncheon meeting with his aide, Lt. Col. Oliver L. North, and the late CIA Director William J. Casey on Nov. 22--the same day that Justice Department officials discovered the diversion while searching North’s office.

--Rep. Les Aspin (D-Wis.) asserted that there is a possibility the Nicaraguan rebels last year were receiving large sums of money from yet-undisclosed sources--a possibility that he said could open another area of investigation for the panel.

--Poindexter disclosed that the National Security Council staff, never previously viewed by Congress as an operational unit, has conducted other undisclosed covert operations besides running the contra supply network and the sale of arms to Iran.

--Poindexter conceded that he interceded with CIA Deputy Director Robert M. Gates last year in an effort to persuade the agency to take control of the secret Iran-contra operation, with capital assets of $4 million, then being run by retired Air Force Maj. Gen. Richard V. Secord.

--The committee released copies of a 1971 Navy fitness report on Poindexter, which described him as a man with a “photographic memory.” But in his testimony, Poindexter said he could not remember many details of his year as the President’s national security adviser.

--Poindexter dismissed a report in The Times last week that $1.5 million in weapons for the contras were purchased from a Syrian smuggler tied to the notorious terrorist, Abu Nidal. “When you’re buying arms on the Third World market, you might often have to deal with people you don’t want to go to dinner with,” he replied.

Early Adjournment Urged

As a result of Poindexter’s earlier testimony that Reagan was unaware of the diversion, many Republicans on the committees were pressing for early adjournment of the hearings on the ground there is nothing more to learn.

“We’ve elevated the art of beating a dead horse to new heights,” Hatch said.

But other GOP members, such as Trible, Rep. Dick Cheney of Wyoming and Sen. William S. Cohen of Maine, joined with many Democrats in expressing outrage at Poindexter’s claim that neither he nor the President ever lied to Congress or the American people, despite many apparent instances in which they told misleading stories.

Much of the discussion of the Administration’s credibility focused on a false statement that Reagan and Poindexter made last November, asserting that all of the weapons sold to Iran could fit into one cargo plane. Despite evidence to the contrary, Poindexter said he still views the statement as “reasonably accurate.”

When his truthfulness was challenged by Trible, Poindexter sought to justify his statements by complaining that members of Congress--particularly former House Speaker Thomas P. (Tip) O’Neill Jr. (D-Mass.)--did not deal in “good faith” with the Administration. He accused O’Neill of holding up funding for the contras for four months after it passed both the House and Senate.

O’Neill, contacted by telephone at his summer home im Harwich Port, Mass., by the Associated Press, responded: “That’s not true. I never deliberately slowed them down.”

Cheney said misleading statements by Poindexter and the President had deprived Reagan of his most valuable tool, the ability to persuade the public to support his policies.

‘It’s Self-Defeating’

“The reason for not misleading the Congress is a very practical one,” he said. “It’s stupid. It’s self-defeating. Because while it may in fact allow you to prevail in the problem of the moment, eventually you destroy the President’s credibility.”

But Poindexter, buoyed by thousands of telegrams of support he has received since he began testifying last Wednesday, insisted the President’s credibility has not been damaged because Americans are not seeking more information.

“I don’t think they want to know the secrets of all of the details of the actions that the U.S. government takes in trying to implement foreign policy and to protect the national security of the United States,” he said.

According to Aspin’s analysis, the funding for the Nicaraguan resistance disclosed thus far was insufficient to keep their forces alive through most of last year. “We’re missing something,” he told Poindexter.

Specifically, Aspin said, contra spending was averaging $3.5 million a month until February, 1986--when the contra forces found themselves “really flat broke” with only $92,000 at their disposal. He disputed North’s assertion that the contras could live on as little as $1 million a month.

Until October, when the flow of U.S. government funds again resumed, records show that the rebels received only about $2.4 million more, which was the amount diverted from the Iran arms profits. Moreover, Aspin said, only $600,000--”almost zip”--went to the main rebel contingent of up to 15,000 troops along Nicaragua’s northern border.

The only possible explanation for the contras’ continuing ability to subsist through those “desperation times,” Aspin said, is that they were receiving money from some source not yet discovered by congressional investigators.

Unaware of Other Aid

Poindexter said he knew of no other financial support for the rebels.

Questioning by Rep. Peter W. Rodino Jr. (D-N.J.) brought to light Poindexter’s previously unknown luncheon meeting with Casey and North on Nov. 22. The meeting is significant because these were the only three Administration officials who apparently knew about the diversion of funds.

About halfway through their two-hour lunch, Poindexter said, they were interrupted by a phone call from then-White House Chief of Staff Donald T. Regan. He said he could not remember much else about the meeting.

When Poindexter insisted under questioning that the three men discussed how to “get over to the American people better” the Administration’s rationale for the arms sales, Rodino expressed skepticism.

“Take everything that Poindexter has said up until now and put it together and decide whether or not it’s credible,” Rodino told reporters. “I don’t think it’s credible.” Poindexter’s testimony has left the committees with the task of reconciling many differences between his testimony and that of North, who preceded him as a witness.

Sen. George J. Mitchell (D-Me.) pointed to several conflicts between the testimony of Poindexter and North.

The most notable conflict, he said, is North’s assertion that he sent at least five memoranda to Poindexter that were intended to inform Reagan about specific arms deals and included information about the diversion of profits to the contras. Only one version, written in April, 1986, survived a “shredding party” in North’s office last November and became the crucial piece of evidence indicating that the diversion had occurred.

“I don’t recall seeing any of the memos until (Nov.) 25th. I did see the one that survived,” Poindexter replied. “ . . . I do not believe there were any more than that one.”