‘Ollie Stood Up There, Took the Heat’ : Bush Says North Will Go Down in History as a Hero

Marine Lt. Col. Oliver L. North, who admitted lying to Congress and destroying government records to conceal his role in the Iran-Contra scandal, has been praised by Vice President George Bush as someone who will go down in history as a hero who feels passionately about his country and patriotism.

While North made mistakes, he “came through” in his efforts to free American hostages held in Beirut, Bush said, and did a better job even “than our great communicator of a President” in expressing what was at stake in Central America during the Iran-Contra hearings.

“And Ollie stood up there, took the heat,” Bush declared, “and the American people in every bar in Chicago and every bowling alley in Texas and every little home said: ‘Hey, this guy believes in something, and I can identify with it.’ ”

Bush, who made his comments during an hourlong interview with British journalist David Frost, has refused to say whether he favors a presidential pardon for North and former National Security Adviser John M. Poindexter, who may face indictments in the Iran-Contra affair. In a debate with other candidates for the GOP presidential nomination that NBC televised last Tuesday, the vice president referred to both men as “patriotic people.”

The Bush interview, which will be televised Sunday night on 115 stations across the country, is the second in a series of “The Next President” programs co-sponsored by Frost’s television production company and U.S. News & World Report.

The vice president told Frost he respects North “a lot” and, when asked whether he believes North will go down in history as a national hero, replied: “I think he will. And you know why he will? . . . He believed passionately in something. He believed passionately that every American life is precious. He who is held hostage is precious. We’ve got to do something about it. He believed it. He came through.”

Although the Iran-Contra committees reported that Bush attended an important White House session in August, 1986, during which Secretary of State George P. Shultz and Defense Secretary Caspar W. Weinberger objected strenuously to President Reagan’s plans to sell arms to Iran, the vice president told Frost that he heard no clear objections from Shultz and Weinberger.

“I never really heard them that clearly,” Bush said. “And the reason is that the machinery broke down. It never worked as it should. The key players with the experience weren’t ever called together . . . to review the decisions that were made at a lower level.”

Reluctant to Discuss Role

Bush has been reluctant to discuss his role in the Iran-Contra affair, declaring that he cannot disclose the advice he gave Reagan on the matter. During the NBC debate, former Secretary of State Alexander M. Haig Jr. demanded to know where the vice president was when the Administration paid “blackmail to terrorists” by authorizing a sale of arms to Iran. Bush sidestepped the question, saying it had been explained clearly by “the Contra report.”

But Bush contended that the vice presidency, which often has been little more than a ceremonial post in the past, “has emerged as something useful” and said he gives “great credit” to former President Jimmy Carter for elevating the office for his vice president, Walter F. Mondale.

Now, he says, the office can “make things happen” and is “much different than it was in the days of John Nance Garner, when he compared it to a bucket of warm spit.”

Bush conceded that during the 1984 presidential campaign he was not as relaxed as he should have been and took it personally when anybody asked “some ugly question.”

‘Less Testy, Yeah’

When asked if he is less thin-skinned than in 1984, he replied: “Less testy, yeah.” But Bush said his wings would “drop off for lying” if he did not admit that some of the more biting criticism, such as the sharp lampooning he suffers in the “Doonesbury” comic strip, did get to him.

He said he once met Garry Trudeau, author of “Doonesbury,” who had attended college with the vice president’s son, George, and that he was pleasant to the cartoonist.

“We saw Doonesbury himself,” Bush said, “and he said to one of our sons who went to college with him: ‘I hope your family doesn’t take this personally.’ And George said: ‘Well, not too personally, but my younger brother is 6 foot 4, and he was going to come up to New York and grab you and kick your butt all over New York City if he could find you.’ We don’t take it personally.”

Trudeau ‘Selling Papers’

Bush said Trudeau is “selling papers, and I’m trying to be elected President of the United States. . . . They got their job to do. I’m not going to let them get under my skin, and I’ve got to present more clearly who I am and what I feel, and not get tense if people criticize. And I am doing better at that--much, much better. I’m much surer of myself.”

The vice president said he believes his image has been distorted by the press but told Frost: “You got your job to do and I got mine. I’ve taken shots, some of them in my view grossly unfair. But I can dish it out, and I can take it, and I’m still standing when a lot of people in the political world thought I’d be KOd on the mat at about eight rounds out.”

He complained that television distorts even his physical image, making him appear short when, in fact, “I’ve been 6 foot 2 since I was 18 years old.”

“Now I got to live with this medium,” he said, “and I got to do better. And I can improve. . . . But, in the final analysis, I got to be what I am. And I’ll keep working on that.”