Bush Staff Wants Two Debates, Dukakis Asks for Four

The campaign chairmen for Vice President George Bush and Massachusetts Gov. Michael S. Dukakis met for the first time Tuesday to discuss debates between the two presidential candidates and afterward predicted that “there will be debates.”

They said they will meet again Thursday. But that’s all they could agree on.

Speaking separately with reporters after conferring for more than two hours, James A. Baker III, Bush’s chairman, said the Republican nominee is willing to debate Dukakis twice with a third debate reserved for the two vice presidential candidates. But Paul P. Brountas, Dukakis’ chairman, said the Democratic nominee wants no fewer than four debates spread evenly over the nine weeks between Labor Day and the Nov. 8 election.

Number to Be Settled

Both campaign chairmen said questions of where the debates will be held, as well as their format, subject matter and sponsorship, would be discussed after the number of debates is settled.

Brountas and Susan Estrich, Dukakis’ campaign manager, told reporters that Baker expressed opposition to a final debate within two weeks of the election on grounds that Bush would have insufficient time to recover from a possible poor showing.

“Our side has no such concern,” Estrich said. “We have enormous confidence in Michael Dukakis not only as a debater but also as a leader.”

Baker, who had departed before this charge was made, said later that the statement by Brountas and Estrich “was not an accurate characterization.” He told reporters his organization wanted only two debates because “debates have a way of freezing a campaign,” causing a candidate to stop a busy schedule of speeches to prepare for such confrontations.

“There are other ways to campaign (besides holding debates),” said Baker, who helped arrange debates for former President Gerald R. Ford in 1976 and for President Reagan in 1980 and 1984. “A campaign is a continuing debate.”

Democrats Seek More Debates

Brountas, summing up their disagreements, said: “We want more debates. They want fewer. We want to start them early. They want to start later. We want them to continue up to when the election takes place. They would like to end them much earlier.”

Bush, campaigning in Rocky Mount, N.C., said Tuesday he did not want “to bore the American people” with too many debates.

“I disagree and I think the American people disagree,” Brountas said. “The voters want to see the candidates talk face-to-face and man-to-man on the issues.”

Aboard Air Force Two, as Bush traveled to a campaign stop in Kentucky, his chief of staff seemed to acknowledge the vice president was wary about tangling too much face-to-face with former television talk-show host Dukakis.

“Dukakis is anxious to debate. He is trained in this line of work. It’s an area of his expertise,” Craig Fuller said.

Concluding Date Debated

In Washington, Baker told reporters that “we are willing to start as early as Sept. 22,” a week later than the Sept. 14 date previously proposed by a bipartisan debate commission and agreed to by Dukakis. Baker also wants debating to conclude by Oct. 17 while Dukakis would like debates to continue until Oct. 25, officials said.

Estrich said the proposed first debate on Sept. 14 is “almost the last date” before the American public turns its attention for two weeks to the Olympic Games in Seoul to be televised during prime-time viewing hours.

Although the League of Women Voters has sponsored presidential debates in recent years, the two major political parties last year created a joint body known as the Commission on Presidential Debates to assume this role.

However, Baker and Brountas said the question of sponsorship is still open, with Brountas suggesting that the commission and the league might jointly sponsor the debates.

Nancy M. Neuman, president of the League of Women Voters, said later Tuesday that “after Thursday if the campaigns are still far apart, the league stands ready to help the negotiations along.”

Staff writer John Balzar contributed to this story.