Reagan Still Doubts Iran-Contra Events : Testimony: The former President denies authorizing a diversion of funds to the Nicaraguan rebels. His taped deposition for the Poindexter trial is released.

Former President Ronald Reagan, discussing the Iran-Contra affair under oath for the first time, said in testimony released Thursday that he did not authorize the diversion of funds from the Iran arms sales to the Nicaraguan resistance and declared he still doubts whether it actually ever happened.

Reagan’s testimony, an eight-hour videotaped deposition given in a Los Angeles courtroom last Friday and Saturday, corroborated testimony of many former top White House aides that the President supported the objectives of the Iran-Contra affair but never approved any of the allegedly illegal acts carried out in his name.

Reagan was questioned by both prosecution and defense attorneys in preparation for the upcoming trial of his former national security adviser, Adm. John M. Poindexter. The tape, which will be viewed by the jury in the Poindexter trial, was shown for the first time to the news media in Washington, but, under a court order, it cannot yet be aired on television.

Reagan, 79, told his interrogators that he had no recollection of many of the key events of the Iran-Contra affair. He offered that reply in answer to more than 120 direct questions and said also that he has forgotten the names of several key players in the affair--as well as Gen. John W. Vessey Jr., who was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Reagan Administration.

Also, Reagan refused to acknowledge many of the commonly accepted facts of the Iran-Contra drama as it has been recounted many times in public testimony by a variety of his former aides over the last four years.

He expressed doubt, for example, that Poindexter had ever admitted misleading Congress.

Similarly, Reagan said he could not recall the Tower Commission’s telling him in March, 1987, that ex-White House aide Oliver L. North had given illegal military assistance to the Nicaraguan Contras.

Nor was he aware, the former President indicated, that Poindexter’s predecessor as national security adviser, Robert C. McFarlane, had pleaded guilty to withholding information from Congress.

But Reagan’s views on the diversion of funds from the Iranian arms sale to the Contras was particularly surprising, considering the mountain of evidence about it that was unearthed during the 1987 congressional hearings into the Iran-Contra affair. The bipartisan probe concluded that the Contras received $3.8 million from the sale of $16.1 million in U.S. weapons to Iran.

“To this day,” Reagan testified, “ . . . with all of the investigations that have been made, I still have never been given one iota of evidence as to who collected the price, who delivered the final delivery of weapons, whether there was ever more money in that Swiss account that had been diverted someplace else. I am still waiting to find those things out and have never found them out.”

When asked directly if he approved the diversion, Reagan added:

“May I simply point out that I had no knowledge then or now that there had been a diversion, and I never used the term. And all I knew was that there was some money that came from some place in another account, and that the appearance was that it might have been part of the negotiated sale. And, to this day, I don’t have any information or knowledge . . . that there was a diversion.”

When prosecuting attorney Dan K. Webb showed him excerpts of the Tower Commission report in which both Poindexter and North admitted diverting money to the Contras from the Iran arms sale, Reagan said it was the first time that he had seen their testimony. Reagan himself created the Tower Commission after the the Iran-Contra affair came to light in November, 1986.

“I didn’t know about it, and (it’s) very possible that he (Poindexter) didn’t,” Reagan added. “But, as I say, this I can’t explain . . . . This is the first time that I have ever seen a reference that actually specified there was a diversion . . . . I don’t understand. This is very confusing to me.”

It was the only moment during his eight hours of testimony that the former President seemed flustered by the questioning. Otherwise, despite the frequent lapses in memory, he was composed and clearly confident of himself--even telling a joke now and then.

The former President stood by his long-held view that his Administration was not dealing with the Iranian regime of the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini but with “moderates” who wanted to restore relations with the United States.

By contrast, the Iran-Contra committees disclosed in November, 1987, that top Administration officials had known all along that the Reagan Administration was dealing with representatives of the Khomeini regime.

As Reagan described it, the Iran-Contra affair was a controversy sparked entirely by an “erroneous” report in a Middle Eastern newspaper that his Administration was trading arms for hostages--a misunderstanding that Reagan said he could never correct, despite numerous public denials.

“Not one word of that seemed to ever get in the media,” he said of his denials.

Reagan admitted that he had approved the sale of arms to Iran, beginning in November, 1985, even though he could not recall when he was first told of the initial shipment of 80 Hawk missiles in November, 1985.

He remembered that both Secretary of State George P. Shultz and Defense Secretary Caspar W. Weinberger were opposed to the sale because they said it would appear to be an arms-for-hostage swap, which was against the policy of the Administration.

“Well, now I have to say they were proven right,” Reagan added.

He recalled also that he had authorized his advisers to serve as a clearinghouse for information for American citizens who wanted to contribute private support for the Nicaraguan rebels after Congress cut off funds to the Contras in October, 1984. But he insisted that he had told his aides they should do nothing to violate the congressional prohibition on Contra aid, known as the Boland Amendment.

Reagan said he was unaware that either Poindexter or McFarlane ever misled Congress, even though McFarlane pleaded guilty to it and Poindexter openly admitted it during his testimony before the Iran-Contra committees in 1987. Reagan said he was unaware that a letter Poindexter wrote in 1986, assuring Congress that the Administration was not violating the Boland Amendment, had been patterned on a similar letter written earlier by McFarlane.

In referring to McFarlane, he said: “I have never caught him or seen him doing anything that was in any way out of line or dishonest, and so I was perfectly willing to accept his defense.”

Among the many things that Reagan said he could not remember were several issues of crucial importance in the Iran-Contra affair--such as whether the CIA or the White House staff was authorized to continue aid to the Contras after enactment of the Boland Amendment, whether he held meetings with important foreign leaders, including the president of Costa Rica, and whether he authorized Poindexter or anyone else to destroy documents.

There is no evidence that Reagan ever authorized his staff to violate the Boland Amendment or to destroy documents. Nevertheless, North has admitted providing military aid to the Contras, Poindexter has admitted destroying a key document in which Reagan authorized the arms sale, and North has admitted shredding thousands of documents related to the case.

Likewise, there were many lesser details that Reagan could not recall. He not only could not place Vessey’s name but failed to recognize the name of Rep. Lee H. Hamilton (D-Ind.), former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

In addition, he could not identify a picture of former Contra leader Adolfo Calero and was unfamiliar with the Intelligence Oversight Board, which advised him on matters relating to covert intelligence gathering.

Reagan, clearly embarrassed by his inability to recall details, asserted several times during his testimony that these matters were often dwarfed by the many important issues facing him as President. As evidence of this, he volunteered these statistics: As President, he met with an average of 80 persons a day, held meetings with more than 400 world leaders during his tenure and his Administration generated 50 million pieces of paper.

But there were other incidents that Reagan recalled in vivid detail, such as an intelligence report that he once received detailing Soviet shipments of helicopters through the Panama Canal to Nicaragua. He even recalled that U.S. intelligence had access to the bill of lading, proving that the cargo was helicopters, even though the Sandinistas insisted the shipment was nothing but farm equipment.

Reagan was questioned in the Los Angeles Federal Courthouse in the presence of Judge Harold H. Greene by Webb and Poindexter’s attorney, Richard W. Beckler. Although Beckler at one point during the questioning said he thought the former President appeared to be getting tired, Reagan’s answers to the questions actually seemed to grow more confident as the questioning proceeded.

The testimony clearly supported Poindexter’s account of the events involved in the Iran-contra affair and thus was expected to be helpful to his defense against charges of lying to Congress and destroying documents.

BUSH PARADOX--Is it possible that the then-vice president was uninformed about one of the key events of the Reagan years? A22

HONDURAN CONNECTION--Reagan said he pressured Honduras to help the Contras in return for U.S. aid. A22