Rap Under Siege : Pop Music: The furor over legal moves against 2 Live Crew has sparked intense debate in the local African-American community.

The arrest of two members of the rap group 2 Live Crew on obscenity charges Sunday in Hollywood, Fla., and the move to make the selling of its “As Nasty as They Wanna Be” album illegal in three Southern Florida counties and in San Antonio, Tex., have ignited debate about free speech, particularly in African-American communities in Los Angeles and Compton. Some say that racism is the real reason behind the crackdowns. But others say that much of rap, arguably the most controversial pop genre in recent years, has gone too far. The latest events have thrown the whole issue of rap music as a viable expression of the black experience into question.

Ask Lynda-Judith Hargrave about mainstream soul singers Anita Baker or Luther Vandross, and you’ll hear raves. Don’t ask her about rap, however. She couldn’t tell a Public Enemy from an N.W.A.

But Hargrave, 34, couldn’t resist going to a South Los Angeles record store Tuesday morning and buying a tape of “As Nasty as They Wanna Be,” the controversial album by rappers 2 Live Crew that authorities in Florida and Texas have declared to be obscene.

After later playing the tape at home, she agreed with the officials on one point: “As Nasty as They Wanna Be” should be “banned.” But not because she thinks it’s obscene.

“It should be banned because it’s a lousy record,” laughed Hargrave, who works for the Los Angles County Safety Police at Martin Luther King Jr. Hospital. “There’s no message, there’s no point. Obscenity is all it has going for it. It’s the only reason to buy it.”

However, she was not offended by the lyrics: “Obscenity doesn’t bother me. If someone needs to do it to express themselves, fine. It’s a person’s right to listen to what they choose.”

It was a slightly different tune about 20 miles away, around the Compton courthouse as Midas, 21, an aspiring rapper who only uses one name, talked about 2 Live Crew.

“2 Live Crew’s music is negative,” said Midas. “It’s not representative of rap. It’s not good for black kids to hear that kind of music.”

Compton Fire Chief Monroe Smith, 59, who was standing nearby, put it more bluntly: “I’m not opposed to rap, as long as it’s censored.”

Shaundra Brown, 14, disagreed. “Nothing is wrong with what 2 Live Crew is saying,” said the Compton High School ninth-grader, who was also walking by the courthouse. “They’re in trouble because they’re black.”

And, a few miles away, at the First African Methodist Episcopal Church in South Los Angeles, the Rev. Cecil L. Murray, saw the arrests as a danger sign.

“Anything that infringes on the rights of the freedom of society frightens me,” said Murray, who never heard 2 Live Crew. “I would rather bend over to preserve someone’s freedom to be obscene than to get repressive and ban something that is not obscene.”

The diverse comments reflected the range of the furor in local black communities over the arrests of 2 Live Crew leader Luther Campbell and Chris Wonwong following an adults-only performance by the group at Club Futura in Florida.

The arrest came three days after U.S. District Judge Jose Gonzalez ruled that the “Nasty” album was obscene, making it illegal to sell the record in Broward, Dade and Palm Beach counties. Authorities said the group sang some of the songs during the performance. The album, which Campbell calls a comedy work in the tradition of Redd Foxx and Eddie Murphy, features exaggerated, expletive-laced tales about sexual encounters.

The Florida incidents may have just been the tip of the iceberg. Police in San Antonio, Tex., have started to warn record stores that they could face obscenity charges for selling the controversial album (see related story, Page 5). Lt. Jerry Pittman, commander of the San Antonio vice squad, said Wednesday that if complaints from parents of children buying the album continued, police would begin conducting undercover investigations, and persons selling the album could be arrested.

Most of the rap fans and non-rap fans interviewed this week in Southern California record stores, shopping centers, fast-food restaurants, homes and offices around predominantly black Los Angeles and Compton neighborhoods had heard about the 2 Live Crew’s arrests, although many had not heard the album, which has sold more than 1.7 million copies since its release last summer.

The debate over 2 Live Crew and rap was generally divided along age lines. The core audience for rap is black teen-agers, so the music, understandably, enjoys its greatest support among young people. Adults, however, were largely as uneasy about rap, which came to national prominence in the mid-’80s. In many instances, their remarks echoed the complaints that many parents had when rock surfaced in the ‘50s.

Several of the people interviewed, particularly youths and those who work with youths, found rap to be positive, enlightening and entertaining. They applauded the music of such groups as New York-based Public Enemy and Los Angeles-rooted N.W.A for their gritty portrayals of inner-city life.

But many others denounced rap and groups such as Public Enemy, which specializes in aggressive, strongly political statements of black consciousness, and N.W.A, whose “Straight Outta Compton” album last year included stark, heavily profane tales of gang life.

They said much of rap projected a negative image of blacks to whites, as well as to each other. They were especially critical of the profanity and sexual explicitness of the lyrics.

Although few said that rap should be censored, most of those interviewed felt that some steps should be taken to force the more outspoken rap artists to more “responsible” to their young audiences.

For opponents of rap music, the uproar and legal action against the popular genre has been long overdue.

Public Enemy sparked a national scandal when one of its members made anti-Semitic remarks in a Washington Times interview last May. The group member, Professor Griff, is no longer associated with the New York outfit, whose “Fear of a Black Planet” album is one of the 20 best-selling albums in the country.

An FBI official last August accused N.W.A of encouraging “violence against and disrespect” for law enforcement officers. A Newsweek cover story in March blasted rap for celebrating gang culture, debasing women and glorifying attacks on police.

However, many in local communities said the move against 2 Live Crew was basically a case of racial harassment.

“It’s a backward step and racially motivated,” said James Miller, manager of Tempo Records on Crenshaw Boulevard. “They don’t ban (Los Angeles rock group) Guns N’ Roses. I had one good customer bring back “GN’R Lies” because of the lyrics. If you’re going to ban 2 Live Crew, you have to go across the board.”

Monica Delacruz, 14, said there was nothing wrong with 2 Live Crew’s lyrics: “I don’t think it’s (the arrests) right. Like N.W.A, when they sang that song, ‘F--- The Police.’ It is truth . . . They’re just rapping. All they’re doing is singing. It’s not like they’re hurting anybody.” But she added that her parents and teachers would be happy about the arrests: “They think that they shouldn’t be singing songs like that.”

Others, ranging from those who work to rehabilitate gang members to observers of the local cultural scene, say that as far as the recent trouble goes, 2 Live Crew --as well as other rap artists who filled their songs with profanity--have asked for it.

“I’m not really into censorship, but 2 Live Crew has put out a series of degenerate records that are demeaning to women,” said Donald Bakeer, an English teacher at Manual Arts High School and a singer who has recorded his own album, complete with rap songs.

“As an English teacher and a member of this community, I feel something needs to be done,” Bakeer continued. “When you use the airwaves to put out something called ‘Me So Horny’ (the hit single from “Nasty’), it’s wrong. When you use the mass media to vomit up your profane, perverse proclamations, I think the powers that be have a responsibility to stop it.”

Bakeer’s voice rose in anger: “I mean, this is targeted for the Afro-American community, and the bane of the younger generation is premarital pregnancy.”

Jitahadi Imara, vice president of the African-American Music Society, which is dedicated to the study, preservation and promotion of African-American Music, said he had no objections against what he called social conscience rap or entertainment rap.

“But unfortunately, there is socially offensive rap such as 2 Live Crew that is destructive as music,” he said. “It’s conveying to youth a perception of life that is negative and underdeveloped. N.W.A is socially offensive. (The initials themselves include a racial expletive) at a time when there is a movement to reidentify ourselves with Africans.

“Much of this rap has destructive moral and social vocabulary. The presentation of life is problematic and helpless. It’s a kind of ghetto vision.”

But even opponents of 2 Live Crew said they did not denounce all rap.

“Rap is poetry on the radio,” said Bakeer. “It’s the first time that people are tuned in to poetry en masse. It’s message music.”

He said he has used rap to help teach English and literature in his classes. He praised N.W.A for reflecting the reality of street life, and Public Enemy for “embittered but profound” political commentary.

“It’s not perfect, but I can see these groups beginning to grow,” he said. “We need artists with that political bent.”

Chilton Alphonse, executive director of the Community Youth Sports and Arts Foundations, which works with gang members, agreed.

“Rap does represent me and my experience,” he said. “It’s truly a form of expression. I was listening to a record by M.C. Hammer this morning, where he was rapping about praying.”

However, some of the good intentions of rap are lost in the relentless beat and the lifestyle, some community leaders said.

Delores Sheen-Blunt, executive director of the Sheenway School and Culture Center in South Los Angeles, said youths were caught up in the superficiality of rap. “If you teach someone from rap, they can recite the words, but do they really understand it?” Blunt said. “For little kids, it’s too much, too soon. Obviously, we have a problem when the only way you can tell how you feel is through a rap phrase.”

She added, “We have beauty in our culture, but we’re at a critical stage. At a time when young people need so much cultural awareness, inner strength and self-discipline, they’re into this rap. You have to rap to be someone. If you are not associated with it, if you don’t go to the concerts, if you don’t have all these tapes, you’re not hip or ‘def.’ ”

Rev. Edward V. Hill of the Mt. Zion Missionary Baptist Church in Los Angeles said rap should be censored, not only because of the language, but because of the images associated with it.

“Rap places into the living room of white America an image of black people that lowers us in their eyes,” he said. “It makes it easier to overlook the efforts of the many children and young people in my community who are accomplishing great things.

“I’m pro-censorship. The human spirit cannot receive and hear everything that’s out there and not be affected. I’m way out on the right wing on this. The concept of free speech never meant to embrace filthy and nasty.”

But most of those interviewed agreed that the issue of free speech was more delicate than whether 2 Live Crew uses dirty words in its songs. To unconditionally take away that right is asking for disaster, they said.

Tempo Records manager James Miller said any ban of rap would be “just like banning books or freedom of speech. If you’re going to put it on the airwaves, it should be governed. But when you come into a store, no one’s putting a gun to your head. I don’t like Nazis and killing, but if that’s freedom of expression, I don’t want them to take mine away.”

Steve Hochman and staff writer Dennis Hunt contributed to this article.