Los Angeles Times Interview : Donna Karan : On Working Women, On Wearing the Pants, On Building a Fashion Empire

In the last 10 years, women’s office clothes have undergone a startling transformation. One of the major reasons is Donna Karan--her new clothing line in 1984 redefined how women look in the workplace.

Like a politician who is just ahead of the public-opinion curve, the designer was on the cutting edge of change taking place in the business world. Greater numbers of women were growing more established in their professions and this enabled them to accept a new way of dressing. The ‘70s look was “dress for success”--a loose, Brooks Brothers-style suit--mannish blazer, trouser skirt, white oxford shirt and small bow-tie. In their desire to be taken seriously, women were wearing a distorted image of a man’s business suit.

Karan took this and turned it inside out. Skirts were shorter and snug, shirts became clinging, jackets more fitted. The tie evolved into a chunky necklace. As women spent more time at the workplace, their clothes grew more comfortable.

And Karan created a fashion empire. It was built on a body suit, a shirt top that snaps closed at the bottom so it could never come untucked. Over it, she created a set of pieces that fit together, like Lego blocks, to build innumerable looks. Jackets and skirts could go from the office to dinner just by adding a piece of jewelry.

With this base, Karan, at age 41, has become the most successful American woman designer ever--with two distinctive lines of clothes, her original and the year-old DKNY, a more accessably priced, casual collection. Total sales are projected to reach $153 million in 1990. In addition, she markets eyeglasses, hosiery, shoes and sewing patterns--with perfume and home furnishings in the works.

Karan developed a feel for the working woman during her years with Anne Klein. She started there fresh from Parsons School of Design in 1969 and ultimately took over--with Louis Dell’Olio--when Klein died in 1974. They ran the Klein line with great success, for 10 years, before Karan went out on her own.

While managing a multimillion-dollar industry, Karan is still concerned with the details. In her constant re-examination of how women dress, in pursuit of that elusive perfect tote or pump, she has enabled hundreds of thousands of women to feel more comfortable at the workplace.

Question: Within the last 10 years, women have changed the way they dress at the workplace. How have you influenced this?

Answer: A while back, when I was at Anne Klein, women were still at entry-level positions in the workplace and worried about competing with men. At that time, I think, women were basically wearing a blazer, a silk blouse and a pair of trouser pants or trouser skirt. And that was sort of their uniform.

But now, in the ‘90s, the working woman is much more sure of herself. She doesn’t have to constantly prove herself. She can wear what she wants.

And basically what I started--when I started the company about, what was it, six years ago--was: It’s OK, we’re women, and let’s start with our bodies. And let’s sort of accent the positive, and delete the negative . . . .

We started with the body suit--that certainly has totally changed the way women feel about blouses. And then layering on top. And keeping the clothes simple--day into evening. The clothes have gotten a little bit more travel-oriented, you know, packable. You know, modern.

Then there’s the whole idea of using accessories--I think we’ve had an important statement in what an alligator belt means to a woman. Then all you need is a white body blouse, and a black skirt, and a black alligator belt and a string of pearls, and a cashmere scarf. You can go anywhere. Or, for evening, add a sequined scarf to something.

It’s that whole accessory feeling. A way of pulling an outfit together that makes women more comfortable and more sure of themselves. Before we started, designer accessories were on the cheaper side, you know. There were no such things as alligator belts, and good hosiery and all that kind of stuff. When I came out with my first pair of hose--God, it’s so expensive!--but it’s quality. And cashmere. You know, cashmere is something that we all talk about now. It’s not something we say is for the chosen few.

But the feeling of luxury, that it’s better to buy a few good pieces that will last forever. It’s not about fashion, for the season. But fashion that will have longevity. I feel also the counterpoint, of putting together expensive and inexpensive things. Not everything has to be expensive. If you buy a good jacket--you can wear it with anything you own. It doesn’t have to be all “designed.” It’s all separate pieces--it’s a sportswear concept.

Q: Working women often wouldn’t wear certain things because they felt men wouldn’t take them seriously. How has this changed?

A: Well, I think they realized, because they felt so good in it, that they could stop worrying about the way they looked and worry about what they wanted to do.

They were ready for it. They were saying: “OK, I’m bored now, I’ve done the executive routine. I’ve done that. Now I want to feel like a woman.”

And they realized. I mean, nobody came and said, “This is it!” but they liked the ease of putting it together. That’s the way I always dressed--I always start with a body suit, and then everything else works on top of it. So I knew the system worked. I just had to get it out there as a system of dressing.

Q: From the way a woman dresses, what can you tell about her role in the business world.

A: It’s not about the clothes that she wears, but her whole aura. If women feel comfortable with the way they look, they are going to present themselves better. That is what I am trying to help women do. You don’t feel that the clothes are wearing you. You don’t have to deal with the clothes any more. Now you can worry about projecting yourself and what you want to present to the world.

I think you can tell about her role, as a person, how she comes across, what she says. Because it’s not necessarily her clothes--but how her clothes affect her body language. When she walks in--if she’s confident in her clothes, that tells it.

I don’t look at the clothes first. I never look at somebody’s clothing first. I see the woman first. I see her personality first. I see her as a person, and by the way she’s wearing it. I think that one thing about my clothes is you don’t notice my clothes. It’s not the clothes that stand out. When you have those kind of clothes, they don’t work. It’s the woman that’s important, not the clothes.

Q: Is there something you’ve discovered that women won’t wear to an office?

A: Some women are not permitted to wear pants. I mean they really are not permitted to wear pants. I think there’s a discretionary point of, you know, what women want to wear . . . . say, short skirts--it depends. As long as your leg looks good and it’s appropriate. I don’t mean vulgarity--I don’t think anybody likes vulgarity in any level. Bad taste is bad taste . . . .

The first time that somebody said to me, well you can’t wear sandals to work, I said: “Who said?” In the summertime, and it’s hot out, and you’ve had a beautiful pedicure . . . why can’t you wear sandals to work?

Or you must wear a bra to work. I’ve never heard of such a thing in my life! That was the original, dress-for-success kind of thing. But I have body suits. What do I need a bra for? You know, if you don’t need it. Right? Once the foundation is on underneath, and you feel all held in, a little bit of skin is not so terrible.

Q: So the look is more casual?

A: Absolutely, it’s more relaxed--not as corporate. It’s not as downtown-Wall Street looking. Dress-for-success was women with suits and bow ties and sneakers and that skirt that wasn’t tight and it wasn’t big--it was just there. It had no movement--like pleated skirts.

Q: When you saw this, did you say we’ve got to change these women?

A: Well, I just hated it. I just thought the clothes were so ugly. There’s no fun. And now, I think, you know I see all these, these “suits” that women wear--they’re not nice suits. There’s nice suits, and there’s nice suits. You have to know how a jacket should feel. How her shoulder line should look.

I mean, these huge oversized shoulders, you just want to cringe. I saw them coming in the other day--the blooming girls, I call them. I think it was so funny, that this mountain was coming at me. Shoulder pad on top of shoulder pad . . . . Q: What do you think influences a woman when she dresses for an office?

A: I think what looks good on her, and how she feels confident in herself. The working woman’s wardrobe is based on ease--when you get up in the morning, you don’t have to think about what to wear. Women have much more to do in the morning than just get dressed. They use that time to get their life in order, get organized, exercise, spend time with their children . . . . There is so much to do. You don’t want to waste time worrying about what to wear.

Q: Are you the Donna Karan woman?

A: Absolutely. I mean this collection is only about me. If somebody says, “Who is the customer?”--I’m the customer. I design it for myself, for my lifestyle. What my highs are, what my lows are. Where I’m missing clothes in the wardrobe. Where I’m not. What’s comfortable . . . .

Basically, I figure out what bag functions for me. What wallet functions for me. What kind of shoe do I need. For example, now I’m going away. My summer’s starting to happen, and I’m thinking about resort wear.

I love designing now, ‘cause these are clothes that I’m going to wear then. I look at my fall wardrobe, and I say, OK, now I’ve bought all these clothes. I can’t wait to wear them. But comes October, November, I’m going to need something to add to that wardrobe--what is it? That’s how I answer the questions.

Q: How do you keep in touch with your customer?

A: I’m using myself as the barometer. I’m following her through, so I know when she needs a change--and when she doesn’t. As I’m wearing something, I realize: I’m ready for this; God, that works, I need to do more of that, I haven’t completed that point of reference yet.

Or I go back to my closet and say: “Why did I love that?” “Why don’t I love this?” I stand in front of the mirror, and actually put the clothes on--morning, noon and night--and see where my eye is changing. And if my eye is changing, for me, then I know it’s changing for her.

Q: What insights into women do you have that a male designer doesn’t.

A: I really understand how clothes feel on the body: what jacket, how it sits, how it works. When the clothes really do work, when they don’t work. When I’ve designed something good, and when I haven’t. What system of dressing works. How to put all the pieces together. I can lay out anybody’s wardrobe for them. Because I understand how to build the whole thing, ‘cause I wear it . . . . The comfort of the clothes for me is absolutely, bar none, the most important.

Q: When you were at Anne Klein your clothes weren’t as directed towards this as they are now.

A: Oh they absolutely were. Absolutely. No question about it . . . . It was very career-oriented at Anne Klein.

But what has happened is there’s the different working woman . . . . We talked about the working woman more in the ‘70s than anything else, she was addressed in terms of how to work for success. You know--how to get yourself together, how to get a job. Once she’d gotten a job--then we said, how do we address how to make her feel like a woman again.