Judge States His Case on Remarks That Led to Discrimination Charge Against Him

Retired Superior Court Judge Ragnar R. Engebretsen, recently overruled by an appellate court for “egregious” remarks reflecting “stereotypical sex roles” in a divorce case, says that he had no discriminatory intent when he made the comments that led to his rebuke.

But the outspoken, 65-year-old jurist, who compared the woman plaintiff in the case to a cow and said she had “had nothing going for her except for her physical attractiveness,” acknowledged that gender bias is “pervasive” in the legal system.

In a recent interview at his Mission Viejo home, Engebretsen admitted to being “a person who likes quips. . . . I have strong opinions about a lot of things, and I like to engage in interchange on thoughts.”

However, he said he was chagrined over the controversy and the impression it has left. “I think I was misunderstood. I was accused of making gender bias comments--I don’t know just exactly what they were,” he said. “They’re apparently taking off on some words I have said and are concluding that I had gender bias and therefore she didn’t have her fair trial,” the judge said.

Last month, the 4th District Court of Appeal overturned a 1988 ruling by Engebretsen in which the judge refused to declare invalid the prenuptial agreement between Newport Beach car dealer George (Chick) Iverson and his second wife, Cheryl.

In denying the challenge, Engebretsen commented on Cheryl Iverson’s attractiveness and noted that her wealthy husband did not look “like Adonis.”

This disparity between the pair notwithstanding, Engebretsen wrote in his decision, it was after “only . . . five or six luncheon dates with Chick Iverson before she decided to move into his home.”

Clearly, the motivation for the marriage must have come from Cheryl Iverson, Engebretsen wrote, since marriage would be “the last thing on (Chick’s) mind. . . . Why in heaven’s name, do you buy the cow when you get the milk free, as we used to say.”

The appeals court reversed Engebretsen’s ruling, which had cost Cheryl Iverson a division of community property potentially worth $5 million to $10 million, and ordered the Iverson case retried before another judge.

“The day is long past when appellate courts can disregard judicial action rooted in racial or sexual bias as harmless error,” wrote Presiding Judge David G. Sills in the unanimous decision.

Civil attorney Michelle A. Reinglass, president of the 6,000-member Orange County Bar Assn., said she was especially surprised that Engebretsen made the comments because she has always been treated fairly when appearing before him.

But she said the comments were clearly offensive and indicate a bias that needs to be erased from the courtroom. One of Reinglass’ first acts upon becoming the association’s president has been to form a Gender Bias Committee that will seek to educate judges and attorneys about the problem.

“The comments were very inappropriate and in very poor taste,” she said. “It shows that gender bias is out there.”

Judge Donald E. Smallwood, presiding judge of the Orange County Superior Court, said Engebretsen enjoys a reputation as a fair judge. Smallwood said he has never received complaints accusing the judge of bias and contended that the reversal should not reflect upon the judge’s entire career.

“It would be unfair to make (Engebretsen) out to be some old dinosaur with gender bias hanging off him,” Smallwood said. “I don’t think you can take one decision and say that he’s biased against women.”

Smallwood said Engebretsen is not currently assigned to any civil cases. But the appellate court decision will not prevent him from hearing cases in the future.

The appellate court cited Engebretsen’s repeated references to Cheryl Iverson, a 40-year-old woman, as a “girl.”

“When you’re 65, everybody looks like girls or boys,” the judge replied during the interview.

The purpose of his comments from the bench, Engebretsen said, was “simply to explain why I concluded that I did not believe her story and I did believe his, as to what was the basis for the premarital agreement.”

In a previous judicial rebuke in another domestic dispute, the celebrated divorce action between Dr. Thomas Gionis and Aissa Wayne, daughter of actor John Wayne, Engebretsen was taken to task for twice advising attorneys in a divorce case to “tell them to take a cold shower” before proceeding with the case.

The appeals court wrote, in a footnote, that “we are compelled to remind the trial court that its own views on the advisability of sexual abstinence and delay in remarriage are not part of the Family Law Act and accordingly should not influence its judgment.”

But Engebretsen denies that his remarks in the Iverson or Gionis cases indicate that his personal value system is at odds with modern social standards.

Noting his undergraduate degree in psychology and work in a mental hospital, he said: “I’ve seen a great deal of life as a deputy district attorney and as a judge over all these years. And the worst thing I could do would be to try to impose my morals or my standards on somebody else. That’s inappropriate for me.

“That happens to be a tenet of the Mormon faith: We do not think it’s appropriate to impose our standards on someone else, and I’ve been raised in that and I try to live that.”

Known around the courthouse as “Rags,” Engebretsen retired from the bench last April, after 13 years as a municipal judge and seven years as a Superior Court judge. But several days later, preparing to sell his home, he fell from a ladder, shattering a bone in his ankle.

While recuperating from the accident, which has so far required two surgeries, 19 screws and two metal straps, the judge was found to have the nerve disease myasthenia gravis. Engebretsen is being treated for the disease, but comprehensive treatment must wait until his ankle heals and his cast is removed.

The son of a Norwegian immigrant who married into a Utah Mormon family, Engebretsen’s home is filled with books and artifacts indicating his Scandinavian heritage, including a horned Viking helmet on the living room coffee table.

Engebretsen characterized the gender bias charge as a “trendy thing, on everybody’s mind” these days, while acknowledging that the attitude is “pervasive” among others in the legal system.

The charge of gender bias against him, said Engebretsen, “is kind of a surprise to me because one of my big things is that I believe women are one of the greatest untapped resources in our society.

“I don’t think we develop them as much as they would like, and as much as we could. And I don’t believe we give them opportunities as much as they would like and as I think we should. Because they have good minds, they have great things to offer to society. They have points of view that need to be heard. . . .

“I always try to treat people fairly, and I do not think that to treat them any less than anything else because of color or religion or gender is appropriate.

“The only limitation that I can see that should be placed upon a woman or man, is whether or not they have the mental and physical ability to do the job. Other than that, they can do whatever they want, whatever they can. If we don’t, we deprive ourselves of a tremendous value in society.”

The father of seven, Engebretsen said he “pushed my daughters more than I do my sons to go to school.” Eight years ago, he said, he helped take over cooking, shopping and other household chores when his wife started her own business.

“We as men do a lousy job of being attractive as a spouse or as a companion to women,” Engebretsen said. “I think we fall down on it. I think there needs to be something in society to cause men to become more sensitive to women, to treat them kinder and gentler and to promote them and push them and to assist them.”

Times staff writer Rene Lynch contributed to this story.