KATHRYN ELIZABETH TERRY : Chairman, Orange County Bar Assn.’s Immigration Law Section

Kathryn Elizabeth Terry, a Tustin-based attorney, has been an outspoken advocate for improvements to the nation’s immigration laws. She is chairman of the Orange County Bar Assn.’s Immigration Law Section and has advised congressional staffers who are charged with shaping the nation’s immigration law. Terry represents both aliens and employers. Talking as a private attorney and not as a representative of the Orange County Bar Assn., Terry recently spoke with Times staff writer Greg Johnson.

*

Do employers want to comply with immigration laws?

They want to comply with the law, but it’s extremely difficult to comply with the law. To travel through that process is timely and costly, and employers just can’t wait one to six years for an employee to start working. There are such significant backlogs in the process that it’s an unworkable system. The sad part is that there’s no facility to legalize the alien during this lengthy process; the employer wants the person to work, the alien wants to work but cannot be employed.

Most illegal immigrants, most all of my clients, have paid taxes. They do file income taxes. They do buy property and do try to make a good life. They’re not on welfare, they’re not draining society, they are here contributing.

The Immigration and Naturalization Service’s Handbook for Employers is written in a simple, straightforward fashion. How many employers actually read it?

Maybe 10%, in my opinion. I know lawyers who just throw it in the trash. People say ‘What’s this? Another tax I have to pay?’ But it is very well written and it’s easy to understand.

Can consultants help companies to do what’s right?

Consultants, I suppose, are my competitors. Some are incredibly talented and experienced, better than many attorneys that I know. There are other consultants who have the experience, but who are extremely shrewd businessmen who capitalize on the vulnerability of aliens. There are other consultants who are simply inept; they don’t know the law, they don’t know what they are doing. They’re just out there to make a buck.

Did the highly publicized Vans raid in January mark a turn in how the INS is enforcing immigration law?

No. They make lots of raids all the time. That one just got publicized. INS has collected millions of dollars in (fines). I sometimes wish (raids) were more publicized. They make raids that you don’t hear about. They go into homes to look at domestics; President Bush’s son’s domestic was deported to Nicaragua. They make arrests in Anaheim Hills and Tustin Hills. They raided a small insurance company where the only employees were a wife and (an illegal) Canadian cousin.

Attorney general candidates Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood have made immigration law a household word, haven’t they?

The big issue for professional women is should we be home with our children or at work. And for years, we’ve been attempting to locate good child care. Many of these (illegal) women are working in domestic situations, they’re home with America’s children. They’re so dedicated, so many of them truly love their jobs. There’s a bonding that takes place that you can’t deal with through legislation. But there’s also a great deal of exploitation (of the domestic help) and that’s wrong.

And for your corporate clients, what do you advise them to do to stay within the law?

They need to use some common sense. If you get a green card that’s presented to you and the birth date is only three years ago and the picture on it is of a 40-year-old man, I think that on its face is fraudulent. They need to use common sense to eyeball what is obviously fraudulent. I think that’s what the law requires, that they scrutinize and verify that they are legitimate workers.

One of the things that happens, though, is that a worker may have a legitimate document that expires at some time in the future. But when that happens, the employer has often become dependent upon the alien’s labor or his expertise. He (the employer) doesn’t care that it expires. Rather than discharge him at the time it expires, the business allows him to keep on working. That paperwork adds more of a burden to the employer. He has to remember that John Doe “expires” on such and such a date.

Is immigration law designed to stop illegal immigration?

I think that if the government--the county, state or federal government--wanted to stop it, they have the power, the resources to stop the flow of illegal immigration into this country. I think it’s a national policy not to stop it. Any law--speed limits or otherwise--that’s not unilaterally enforced to give people a message, is going to be broken. I know that in Pennsylvania, you don’t drive 56 miles per hour because you’re going to get a ticket. Enforce any law regularly and often enough and people are going to comply.

Deportation doesn’t work because we have a 65% failure rate. Most of the people never leave or they come back.

You’ve complained that immigration law is discriminatory. Please explain.

People look at illegal immigration and see it only as illegal Mexicans. They don’t see the Canadian illegal immigrants, the white, professional illegal immigrants who are here. There’s a controversy over which law the INS wants to enforce--the blue-collar, unskilled labor part or the professional part. And that tends to invoke discriminatory tactics.

Can you talk about the availability of false documentation?

I have 13 green cards myself, each with different color hair, different names. I purchased them myself in Orange County (during the late 1980s) for between $25 and $50. I did it because I was adamant about stopping the fraud and exploitation of people who pay for false documents. And I wanted to prove to myself that it was as easy to get false documents as people said it was. And it is.

On Orange County’s reaction to immigrants.

“You’re going to see two serious factions in Orange (County). One that is adamant about getting rid of all immigrants, especially illegals . . . and those people who enjoy and really like the pluralistic society that immigrants bring.”

On why some companies take the risk of hiring illegal workers.

“I’m not sure why people do it. Some do it to exploit people, but the majority don’t give it a second thought because they really want that worker.”

On the tough task of getting someone legalized.

“The law has a chilling effect. It makes it more acceptable to stay illegal.”

On the U.S.-Mexico free trade agreement.

“If you eat in a restaurant, hire a roofer, use a gardener or stay in a hotel, you’ve probably used illegal immigrants. The illegal labor force runs our country.”