Talking About Turning Points : Ailey artistic director and a founding member look to dance past and future.

Judith Jamison, the artistic director of the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater and a member of the company from 1965 to 1980, and Christyne Lawson, dean of dance at CalArts and a founding member of the company in 1958, connected by phone--Lawson in L.A., Jamison on tour in Berkeley--to talk about history, the meaning of black dance and two new Jamison works, “Riverside,” set to a drumming score by Kimati Dinizulu, and “Sweet Release,” composed by Wynton Marsalis. These works and many others will be performed this week and next as the Ailey company settles in for a Southland mini-season of premieres, revivals and repertory.

*

Lawson: Just how did the new works, “Riverside” and “Sweet Release,” come about?

*

Jamison: For “Riverside,” I went with Kimati Dinizulu to Savannah and New Orleans.

Savannah--what a town! We went to a church, and there were young people, playing trombones and walking around in a circle, with the trombones facing outward and upward. They were going counterclockwise--I also saw “shouters” outside Savannah, who move in circles, counterclockwise, that’s an African ritual, to move that way.

I was trying to touch base with all of that, the music and how people move.

In “Riverside,” I wanted to say something about connection, via instruments and movement, that is very African-based. It’s about a community, and what people do.

There’s fun in it, and playfulness, too. And there’s one person in it who is symbolic of those who didn’t make it to America, who died on the slave boats. Her movement is very slow and kind of ghost-like, and the ballet finishes that way, very quietly, with this person down by the riverside. She bathes herself in the water as the rest of the people come across the back of the stage, in the dark, reaching for her.

Lawson: Has it been well-received?

Jamison: Yes, yes, it has. Well, so far, so good.

Lawson: And how was the collaboration with Wynton Marsalis . . .

Jamison: . . . on “Sweet Release”?

Lawson: Yes.

Jamison: It was great to work with him. We’d sit next to each other at the piano, and he’d have the trumpet in his hand and his finger on the piano. I’d give him the whole scenario, and he’d say, “You mean something like this?” and he’d play it, and of course it was right, right off the bat.

He says jazz is simple. It is not simple [laughs]; it’s very complicated, because the musicians don’t play the same riff twice. You really have to prime the dancers for that. And I asked Wynton for all kinds of crazy juxtapositions of tempi. It takes heavy concentration when you’ve got half the company doing six counts and the other half doing five, and sometimes you can’t hear where that downbeat is.

Lawson: It’s really a good exercise for the dancers, isn’t it?

Jamison: Absolutely.

“Sweet Release” is basically about lovers. It starts off with them angry, but they have to go to this function, a renewal of vows by some friends of theirs. All of a sudden, there’s an interruption in the party, a tongue-and-cheek lascivious snake in the grass. That part’s done by Matthew Rushing, and [laughing] he’s quite something, he’s from L.A. You’ll notice him right away; he’s just terrific, and the lovers, Uri [Sands] and Karine [Plantadit-Bageot].

Lawson: Let’s talk about change. Dance is different now than it was even 20 years ago. In terms of the Ailey company, how has what you dance about changed?

Jamison: We’re doing dances that are classic, like “Suite Otis” [1971] or “Revelations” [1960]: Those dances stand up forever. And then, because I’m looking for new choreographers all the time, there is a quality of movement that is of now. What my job really is is to keep the dancers on line, attached to the traditional Ailey movement, because that is our basis. They have to stay rooted in this wonderful past that Alvin created.

I think sometimes there’s a failure in dance now, when dancers are asked to do everything: jump higher--every year it gets higher--do more turns. And while they’re trying to achieve that, there’s the possibility that they they just lose what dance is about.

Lawson: Yes, the leg is up, but where’s the rest of the body?

Jamison: Exactly.

Lawson: I have one more question for you. Do you think black choreography is different from any other choreography? What does being a black choreographer mean?

Jamison: [tartly] I think a black choreographer is one who wakes up in the morning and sees that they’re black! I think black choreographers can choreograph from their African American tradition, but they can also choreograph from everyplace else.

Lawson: Exactly.

Jamison: Because they live in this country where everybody else is too. So we have the advantage . . .

Lawson: . . . of drawing on that.

Jamison: Absolutely. It’s wonderful to have all those resources--plus your deep heritage.

Lawson: So “black choreographer” doesn’t really mean very much, does it?

Jamison: It means something for us, but I don’t use the term. And the Alvin Ailey Company isn’t called the Alvin Ailey Black Dance Company. It’s called Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater.

The dance that emanates from this company is not based solely on the African American tradition. It’s also based on the modern dance tradition.

So there’s this constant amalgam of techniques and choreographers, from George Faison’s “Suite Otis” to “Fandango,” which is Lar Lubovitch’s, and Donald Bird. It just goes on and on and on.

Lawson: And there’s all the new works you’ve just brought in. What about [Dutch choreographer] Hans van Manen’s “Polish Pieces”?

Jamison: His works were in the company maybe 15 years ago. And I decided to call on him again. “Polish Pieces” is quite wonderful. It shows how still we can be. How quiet. How dynamic and textured the company can be, and how wonderful we look in bright colors. There’s nothing like an Ailey body in, you know . . .

Lawson: . . . a hot color?

Jamison: Shocking colors! Canary yellow on Bernard Gaddis or a marvelous splash of color on Linda-Denise Evans and Don Bellamy.

Lawson: Your repertory covers so much ground. For a young dancer, I can’t imagine a better experience. There’s so much material, so many different kinds of experiences.

Jamison: And that’s what I expect everybody to have when they come to the dance. We want them to come on the journey with us.

* Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater, Cerritos Center for the Performing Arts, 12700 Center Court Drive, Wednesday-Saturday, 8 p.m., Saturday and Sunday, 2 p.m. $25-$45. (310) 916-8500; and Wiltern Theatre, Feb. 18-23, Tuesday-Saturday, 8 p.m., Saturday and Sunday, 2 p.m. $13-$40. (310) 825-2101.