The Devil and Denzel

On a gusty Sunday morning after a night of apocalyptic downpours, Denzel Washington blows through the door of Hugo’s in West Hollywood for a quick breakfast before heading off to coach the finals of his 9-year-old daughter’s basketball season.

“You know my first apartment was around here,” he says, shedding his corduroy jacket. “Yeah, 920 Kings Road,” he adds, digging into a plate of eggs while reminiscing about a career that began more than 20 years ago in New York theater. “I had that for my first movie, ‘Carbon Copy,’ and the two years I was on ‘St. Elsewhere.”’

He is now 43, with 25 films to his credit, and while Hollywood has witnessed a new wave of black filmmaking characterized by the sleeper hit, “Waiting to Exhale,” Washington remains Hollywood’s only A-list African American movie star. Nominated for a best supporting Oscar for his portrayal of Steve Biko in “Cry Freedom,” winner of that award for “Glory” and nominated for a best actor Oscar for “Malcolm X,” Washington also has been teamed with some of the industry’s top stars: Tom Hanks in “Philadelphia,” Julia Roberts in “The Pelican Brief” and Gene Hackman in “Crimson Tide.”

But with the exception of “Crimson Tide” two years ago, his recent films have been disappointing at the box office: “The Preacher’s Wife,” “Courage Under Fire” and “Devil in a Blue Dress,” the latter produced by Washington’s Mundy Lane Films. Like many Hollywood stars, Washington is wrestling with mid-career questions. “Denzel has been a movie star a long time now, and he understands all its benefits and pitfalls,” says Ed Zwick, who this winter is making his third film starring Washington. “But he also wants to stretch.”

Even now, Washington is laying the groundwork for several changes, including moving with his family (wife Pauletta Pearson and their four children) from his longtime residence in Toluca Lake to a new house on the fringes of Beverly Hills, as well as a move to directing. This year, Washington will be seen in three films, “Marshall Law”; “Fallen,” an “X-Files”-type thriller that opens this month, and, later this spring, Spike Lee’s “He Got Game,” co-starring Ray Allen of the Milwaukee Bucks.

Despite his reputation for being a guarded interview subject, Washington seems both emboldened and reflective in light of the coming changes. “Denzel will test you,” says “Fallen” director Gregory Hoblit, “but he also loves to talk, and he definitely knows how to get big in a room.”

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Q: You’ve got three movies coming out this year. What are you doing with Spike Lee for your “Malcolm X” encore?

A: I play a murderer. Well, not really a murderer but a guy whose whole world is basketball, and he didn’t make it so now he’s angry--and it escalates one night into a fight and his wife’s death. He smashes her head against a sink.

Q: That sounds pretty dark for somebody who always plays such good guys. How did you decide to do that?

A: It was a good story and I wanted to play basketball--I got to play with all these pros--and I was ready to head in another direction. This guy isn’t right with God; in fact, he tries to use God for his purpose until he realizes he has to reap what he’s sown. But it’s actually not as violent as it should have been.

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Q: Speaking of violence in sports, what’s your opinion about [Latrell] Sprewell’s suspension?

A: Put it this way: If they suspended every player in the NBA who fought with his coach, you’d be surprised at how many there’d be.

Q: But Sprewell physically attacked him.

A: If they suspended every player in the NBA who . . . .

Q: OK, OK, but the players are supposedly out of control.

A: I’m not making excuses for the guy, but it’s a whole different game now. I think a lot of critics in the media don’t like the fact that all these young black men are making all that money. Yeah, that’s what I think.

Personally, I don’t like how the game has turned into a platform for people to do commercials and make records when they need to concentrate on the game. People don’t study the fact that Michael Jordan chased Boston and the Lakers for five or six years before he became a superstar. Now these guys come out of the box and a lot of them don’t even want to go to college. Pretty soon you’ll have kids at 13 [saying]: “Well, I’m already 6-foot-7, and I’ve had a lot of hardship in my life.”

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Q: You could say the same thing about Hollywood--and you have, criticizing young actors with no stage training, nothing but a pretty face and an attitude. You’ve even suggested that’s why British actors dominate the Oscars, why people said you were robbed of a nomination for “Courage Under Fire.”

A: I know [laughing]. But that’s my point. For me, I’m working hard at my craft. I’m not opening malls or selling sneakers. But look at what won last year--wasn’t it a British film? That has to do with academy members being in love with British actors. Maybe that’s what I should do. [Mimicking an English accent] “My lord, Denzel here!”

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Q: You’ve won an Oscar, you’re the highest-paid black actor in Hollywood, but you’re still frustrated. Do you at least feel that you’ve gone beyond being called the next Sidney Poitier?

A: Not to belittle him, but that’s the most racist thing that people would say to me. “All you can be is like another black person.” That’s the best you can be? I never looked at Sidney and thought, “Ooh, a good-looking black man who appeals to both white and black audiences.” I just thought, he’s good, that’s it.

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Q: So where are you at this point? You’re a baby boomer; a lot of us are analyzing where we’re headed for the next 20.

A: Yeah, and what do you come up with, a career change?

Q: On bad days, yes.

A: Well, I think that’s where I’m headed. I don’t think I’m as good an actor as I was. I’m wiser, but to be honest with you, I’ve become less and less interested. You lose that fire, because the success narrows the roles you get to play; race narrows the roles you get to play.

Q: Well, you are a leading man. Sam Jackson, for instance, is a character actor--which can give you more latitude . . . .

A: So are Dustin Hoffman and Bob De Niro, but they were character leads. But that’s the title someone gives you, not what I am.

Q: Is that why you’ve genre-shopped more than most actors--thrillers, big-budget, art-house . . . .

A: A good script pretty much determines what you’ll do. Coming off Spike’s film, my thinking is, now I have to do something more, well not mainstream, but doing Spike’s was something sort of rough and rugged. Now I want to go the other way with Ed Zwick’s film and “Midsummer Night’s Dream,” with Kevin Kline playing Bottom. They want me to do Oberon, which I’m not all that crazy about, but it sure looks tasty.

Q: Do you think you would have had a different career if you were less leading-man handsome?

A: Let me tell you something. I don’t know what happened or where, but I remember college. I didn’t have any list of women at my door. Maybe I just aged well. I think it has something to do with being up on that big screen. I mean there’s articles dissecting your face; that’s embarrassing, that’s frightening.

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Q: Why exactly are you an actor?

A: It was something I found out I could do when I was in college.

Q: Oh, please.

A: You want a more complicated answer? I’ll put it like this: Having had a series of failures, I stumbled on this thing that I could do well and that I also really enjoyed. I don’t know why, I don’t analyze it.

Q: Jack Nicholson once told me that he liked acting because it allowed him to express a lot of strong emotions, namely anger, without having to be responsible for their ramifications. So it’s emotionally cathartic . . . .

A: It is, definitely. You get things out of your system, and you have to be careful what sticks.

Q: Like when you played “Malcolm X”? That was a cultural moment for the country. How did you feel making that film?

A: The eye of the storm is a calm place. I don’t leave it to go outside and rehash the storm.

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Q: Where do you see black films heading today? “Waiting to Exhale” was a huge hit. And now there’s “Amistad.” Race is, forgive the expression, hot now.

A: Now? You mean it wasn’t hot for a while? I think one of the big differences from when I did “Malcolm X” is that there are more films from women’s perspectives. Before it was Spike’s movies, and now it’s women like Kasi Lemmon of “Eve’s Bayou,” who are passionate to tell their stories. You also have the studio side--”Hey, the black women are coming. Let’s tap into that.”

Q: So do you think about directing?

A: Well, I really enjoy putting something together and watching others excel. This summer I directed a video for BeBe Winans. The night before I started, I couldn’t sleep, and when was the last time that happened?

Q: Congratulations, but it’s something of a cliche in this town.

A: Yeah, the fact that all these actors want to direct makes it harder and your “success” makes it even harder. But that’s the thrill--to stretch your muscles to maybe fail big. I found out I have a passion for it; now I have to see if I have the discipline. But I got a couple of projects I’m developing.

Q: Like what?

A: I’m not telling you.

Q: Oh, come on.

A: Well, one is the story of an angry young man and an older man who befriends him. I feel the anger in young people, black men in particular. I grew up listening to a lot of rap music in New York. I hear the anger and I see the result, and I think it’s a story I could get a handle on because it’s a relationship and not a lot of pyrotechnics.

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Q: Does it bother you that producer Debbie Allen, who is black, couldn’t get “Amistad” made, but Steven Spielberg could?

A: A lot of people were trying to get that movie made, and Debbie had been trying for a long time. But did you kick in any money to have her make it?

Q: Me? What about you? I don’t see you listed as a producer. Did you give her any money?

A: No, I didn’t. She wanted me to play Cinque, but I didn’t see it. I think it’s better that an outsider play it or it would have been a different movie.

Q: But I also thought you were turned off about blacks in period films. You turned down the role of Jackie Robinson because, after “Devil in a Blue Dress” failed, you said audiences didn’t want to see the passivity of pre-civil rights black protagonists.

A: I didn’t do it because I didn’t see myself as that guy and because it was too close to “Malcolm X.” “Devil” did as well as any film noir. “L.A. Confidential” did about $30 million, and we did $25 million. But young kids don’t care about the ‘40s. The gun ain’t big enough.

But a lot of classics weren’t box office at the time. “Devil” is one of the best I’ve made, and it will be around a long time. Not everything is predicated on dollars with me.

Q: Come on, certain aspects of success are nice: You average $12 million a film. Don’t you feel fairly compensated?

A: No.

Q: No? How high is the bar you set for yourself--$20 million, like Jim Carrey and Sylvester Stallone?

A: It’s all relative. I’m just talking about making money. [Actors] are an easy target, but we’re powerless compared to guys like Bill Gates and [Rupert] Murdoch. My son one time was like, “Oh, Dad, you’re so famous,” and I said, “See that kid over there. His father runs a studio. I work for him.” That shook him up. He wants to play football, but I say, think about ownership. It’s good to play for a team, but think about owning the team.

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Q: Spike Lee has made a lot of noise about that--blacks owning their own business--specifically the [New York] Knicks.

A: I don’t think he can afford the Knicks. Look, I’ve never been that attached to money. Influence is much more important, but I realized even as a kid that money is a tool to influence things.

Q: Is that why you give so much of it away, like $2.5 million to your church?

A: I give a lot to a lot of places. I spread it around.

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Q: You’re a preacher’s son. Has God been a presence in your life?

A: No, not always, but I grew up in the Pentecostal church. When I came to L.A., a friend, Robert Townsend, took me over to a [Pentecostal] church on Jefferson and Crenshaw, where there is a very spirit-filled man who is the genuine article; he gives you things that can sustain you in a very real sense.

Q: Like what?

A: When people say religion, I still sometimes go, “Whoa, wait a minute,” because we’re not all on the same page; there are some guys who will tell you to go into a room and kill yourself. I’m not saying the Bible has the monopoly on being a good human, but I think a lot of the simple lessons taught in the Bible and other books, like the Koran, are so applicable--you know, humility, forgiveness, things we don’t practice. You turn the TV on and you see 12 minutes of murders. We know something is wrong, but if you talk about God today, you get attacked.

Q: But according to the media, God is hip now. Even your movie “Fallen” touches on the presence of good and evil.

A: To say God is hip, that’s the ego trying to bring him down to our level of understanding. We can’t even understand why we woke up, but we got to put God where we can understand him. Man goes down to the ocean and tries to fit the knowledge of the ocean into his brain, instead of just jumping into the water. That’s what faith is--take a swim, don’t analyze it--believe certain things can happen without you necessarily understanding.

Q: Is that why you made “Fallen,” which deals with those issues?

A: It’s an interesting story, the whole good and evil thing. Coming off “Preacher’s Wife,” let’s head down the dark side.

Q: It’s pretty dark. Is that your personal feeling as well?

A: Well, what do you think? What do you see when you look out there? How do you think we got here? Do you think we were all just fish in the water? What makes the sun rise? Do you think there are just scientific reasons? There are those who practice and study evil just like people who practice a faith in God. People who worship the devil. Anything you put energy and time into, you get good at it. Belief is power.

Q: It’s also a little paranoid. There’s a line that you speak in “Fallen” about passing by a stranger: “Is he a homicidal maniac? Does he hate me or is it nothing at all?”

A: People got reason to be paranoid. Look at El Nino. My goodness, it’s just raining, but people think it’s going to wash them away. People don’t think they have control. They think if they walk out of the house, they’re going to get murdered, because evil is out there going nuts. I had to cut the TV off the other night with my kids, after those kids were murdered at school. Is it really necessary for us to hear about everyone who got killed everywhere in the world every day?

Q: I think the news reflects our fears. The baby boomers, including you, are aging, our parents dying, our friends dying of AIDS; we’re afraid for our children. We’ve lost the sense of our invincibility.

A: I agree. We grew up thinking you could be president, and then we saw the president get his head shot off. We lost a lot of our innocence. We found out presidents can die, and they can be crooks. Look at politics today. We vote less than anybody--that’s why Clinton’s president, not because we love him, but we like what the other guys are doing even less.

Q: I think we’re looking for reasons to doubt our own cynicism.

A: But where are we going to get it? This gets back to religion: What can sustain you?

Q: Well, in this town it’s living behind a gate, hiring a big lawyer.

A: Yeah, or they run, lift weights. But they’re afraid to develop their spiritual muscles. It’s a muscle you have to develop, because it just keeps on coming; I’m not saying it’s evil, but it’s coming at you.

Q: Yeah, but what proof do we have?

A: Because I’m here, looking at you, telling you. It’s a reservoir for me to get through life. I know it, I live it.

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Q: Is that what sustained you after your father died during the filming of “Malcolm X”?

A: I wasn’t real, real close with my father. I was talking to my kids about him the other day, and they don’t really remember him. It puts you in touch with your own mortality. I don’t know if it makes you wiser, but you take over a certain measure of responsibility. I was literally behind the hearse paying the funeral guys; everybody is over there crying and I’m writing these checks, and I remember thinking, “This is weird.”

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Q: Does the fact that your parents divorced affect the way you raise your kids?

A: Yeah, I guess that’s why I’m so heavy into the coaching. I remember the only game my dad came to was my championship football game in my senior year in high school, and we got crushed. Man, that hurt. He just wasn’t into sports; he was at church all the time. I never got that pat on the back, so I guess I’m overcompensating.

Q: Is that why you renewed your wedding vows in South Africa? I see you wear two wedding bands.

A: It was my wife’s idea. We were going to South Africa and it was our 10th anniversary, and we were going to meet Desmond [Tutu] anyway . . . .

Q: And you just asked him to officiate?

A: Look at you! It was a Thursday and he has a weekly service for people who work in the church, so he just added us.

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Q: You’ve been to Africa several times.

A: It’s great; you’ve got to go. I’d been to Zimbabwe for “Cry Freedom”; a lot of the crew were black South Africans. I was the naive American. I said, “Now that you’re here, you could just stay, now you’re free.” But they said “No, man, we’re going back home. Yes, there’s oppression, but it’s still home.” This time there was so much hope. Everybody was cleaning up their front lawns, these little two-by-four pieces of grass with flowers. There was so much possibility in a place that had so much pain.

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Q: Was that the first place you saw a black majority?

A: No, that was in Jamaica. I had chosen to go there on a vacation before “Cry Freedom” because I thought it might give me a feeling about South Africa. I remember seeing a black pilot, co-pilot, black people getting the bags. It was a shock, I had never seen that, where everybody from the pilot on down was black.

Q: Is that why you’re an actor: to play all those different roles and bring some of that to our collective cultural consciousness?

A: Yes. It’s one reason why I did “Crimson Tide,” because I’d never seen anybody who looked like me in that position and I thought that was important. I love being able to step into those worlds. Like “Pelican Brief,” I hung out at the Washington Post, and now on this new one, I’ve been hanging with FBI guys.

But I’ve always moved on, even as a kid. I had one group of friends when I was 5 and 6 and another group 7 to 10, and when I started working when I was 11, I had a whole other group, and the same for high school and college. I never went back; I kept tasting over here and over there. Maybe I was preparing for this life all along.