Presbyterians Divided Over Firearm Ban

The diverse congregation of St. Stephen Presbyterian church in Chatsworth ranges from pacifists to National Rifle Assn. members--which may account for its pastor’s decision not to jump into a discussion of the denomination’s recent call for members to remove weapons from their homes and communities.

Although silent on the subject Sunday, Rev. John Payne said he plans to raise the issue with his congregants after learning more about last week’s resolution, made at the church’s annual General Assembly in Charlotte, N.C.

“We’re not here to take a stand,” Payne said. “The church is a place to talk about tough issues from a Christian perspective. And then we can go out to lunch afterward,” said Payne with a laugh.

Other Presbyterian clergymen, such as the Rev. Frank Alton, said the weapons ban makes sound biblical sense.

“It’s good to start with your own house,” said Alton, pastor at Immanuel Presbyterian Church in downtown Los Angeles.

And so it went around Los Angeles on Sunday, as clergy members and congregants started to come to terms with the major policy statement by their church.

Although the resolution is not mandatory for Presbyterians, it marks a major shift in how organized religions have dealt with the issue. For decades, religious groups have called for gun control legislation rather than recommend individual action by members.

As a delegate to the assembly, the Rev. Daryl Fisher-Ogden, associate pastor of Bel-Air Presbyterian, was one of 393 out of 560 delegates who voted for the resolution.

“We have a deep concern about recent school shootings,” said Ogden. “We’re struggling to find a way to stop wanton violence.”

Most pastors and churchgoers interviewed Sunday voiced support for the request.

Few worshipers Sunday said they owned guns, and few disagreed with the position that guns contribute to violence.

But some had reservations about the call from their leaders.

“Personally, I don’t keep a gun in the home,” said Bel-Air member Mike Mizrahi, 46, a Woodland Hills father of two teenagers. “But . . . I don’t think it’s something that the church should weigh in on. There’s a fairly strong separation of church and state.”

Jeff Brown, 54, of Studio City, a member of the Bel-Air congregation since 1978, said the church’s action was appropriate, in light of the recent schoolyard killings. He said the General Assembly’s decision was the manifestation of biblical teachings.

“It’s a well-appreciated concern. ‘Thou shalt not kill’ is one of the Ten Commandments,” Brown said. “Love people--guns, in my estimation, are not a sign of love.”

But Brown also questioned the principle of the church’s intrusion into personal liberty.

“I’m not sure that the church should have a say in the personal lives of its parishioners. But by the same token, too may people don’t have a religious heritage, a love of fellow man. They don’t have the support to find themselves.”

Christine Jorgensen of Rancho Palos Verdes agreed. Sitting outside the church, which is in the Sepulveda Pass, she tended to her 15-month-old daughter.

“I respect church guidance, but I don’t want it to go too far,” she said, adding that she does not own a gun. “I don’t want the church to be like the [Southern] Baptists, who tell their members to boycott Disneyland.”

In downtown Los Angeles, those interviewed agreed that the church should involve itself with important issues like gun control.

“The church has to be involved in the same way in the political life of the country as it is in the religious life,” said Ricardo Moreno, a seminary student interning at Immanuel Presbyterian Church.

But there were doubts about whether the resolution would have much of an impact on gun violence.

“It’s not the churchgoers with guns who concern me. It is the fact you can go down to skid row and find a gun for 25 bucks,” said Bob Buck outside Immanuel Presbyterian. “This is more symbolism than anything else.”

One of those who acknowledged having guns in the house was Lonnie Thompson, 61, a Chatsworth mother of three, who has weapons because her husband and son are law enforcement officials. Otherwise, Thompson said, she opposes guns at home.

“Most . . . accidents occur in the home,” Thompson said. “If there weren’t so many guns, there wouldn’t be so many tragedies, especially with children or adults in anger.”

Next month, Fisher-Ogden and other delegates around the country will explain to local elders the decisions made at this year’s General Assembly. Posters urging discussions about guns will later be designed and distributed among churches.

Though they will have the advice of their religious leaders, Presbyterian gun owners will then be on their own to decide whether to follow that advice or not.

“We hope to have moral persuasion,” said Fisher-Ogden. “We want to assist the congregation in thinking of an issue.”