Middle-American Panel Torn Over Clinton’s Problems

Karen Schaale, 39, voted for Bill Clinton in 1996, thinks he’s a good president and is willing to forgive him for having an affair with Monica S. Lewinsky. But what if it turns out Clinton lied under oath? Schaale turns somber.

“It would be a shame to impeach someone for sex between two consenting adults,” she says, speaking slowly, considering the weight of her words. “But if he lied under oath, then I have a real problem. . . . All politicians know what perjury is. I think he should be man enough to resign if he actually committed perjury.”

It’s a reluctant, uncertain verdict. After all, she adds, Clinton has been good for the country: “Take out the scandal, and how many bad things can you write down on the list?”

For two hours on Monday evening, a panel of 12 middle-American voters wrestled with the moral and legal dilemmas of Clinton’s problems--and declared themselves torn.

Most gave him a high score as president, but even Clinton supporters said they were deeply disappointed when he confessed to adultery last month. All said they hope the country can be spared the trauma of impeachment; all want the scandal to end, the media to move on.

But on the core question of whether Clinton’s acts justify his removal from office, they struggled--sometimes emotionally.

“He doesn’t deserve to be there if he lied,” Marvin Anderson, 40, said sternly.

But a few minutes later, asked if he expects Clinton to resign, Anderson shook his head emphatically.

“Americans are fighters. We don’t give up,” he said. “I can’t imagine he would do that to the United States. He should dig in.”

‘They Were Willing to Consider Both Sides’

The panel’s conflicting verdicts gave a human face to the contradictory findings of recent public opinion polls: Most Americans applaud Clinton’s job performance even as they are troubled by his conduct. Most think he lied under oath and, in the abstract, they consider that a firing offense. But they aren’t ready to see this president removed from office for it.

“Every one of [the participants] was inconsistent in some way . . . [which] tells you how much they still have to work through,” said Democratic pollster Peter D. Hart, who conducted the focus group session for a group of reporters.

“They were willing to consider both sides of the issue,” Hart added, but “they’re not ready or willing” to demand Clinton’s resignation.

The group was assembled to provide a rough cross-section of the electorate. There were five Democrats, five independents, two Republicans. Seven women, five men. Ten whites, two blacks. Seven of 12 said they voted for Clinton’s reelection in 1996.

Schaale, an accountant, and Angela Crum, a 30-year-old homemaker, sat next to each other at the conference table--and embodied the contradictions.

Crum, who voted for Republican Bob Dole in the 1996 presidential election, said Clinton had impressed her with his handling of the economy. She and her husband bought a new house this summer, she said, and their mortgage rate was only 6.5%.

“I’m high-fiving the economy,” she said. “I think he’s done an excellent job.”

But the president has let her down with his private conduct. “We’re all human, fine. But you can also control it,” she said.

“I don’t know that he’s truly sorry for what he did,” she added tartly. “I think he’s sorry he got caught.”

So if Clinton lied under oath, should he resign?

Crum looked glumly down at the table. “I think it’s unfortunate that it would happen . . . [but] all he could do is resign.”

Still, that isn’t what she wants. If she could deliver one message, she said, it would be this:

“He’s done a good job. . . . Leave this Monica Lewinsky stuff behind and move on.”

Most Fear News of Obstruction of Justice

When the panel was polled, eight of the 12 said they expect to learn that Clinton is guilty of some form of obstruction of justice, and seven said that would be grounds for resignation.

“Lying is one thing,” said Bobbi Kreeger, 27, another Clinton voter. “Lying under oath--that’s serious.”

But even though most believe Clinton lied, they ache to avoid removing him from office.

“I would feel upset that he’s being forced to resign for something that’s been blown out of proportion,” said Jodie Tierney, 27, an insurance agent.

Said Hart, the pollster: “When you start to talk to them about the consequences about what might happen, they turn from a group that seems ready for action and they stop. . . . They clearly stepped back.”

But Hart cautioned that the evening’s results did not mean Clinton has been given a reprieve by voters who want to avoid the trauma of a resignation--only that the country needs “more time” to consider the issue.

If the Pennsylvania panelists are disappointed in Clinton--Crum described him as “a teenage boy . . . who’s messed up”--they are volubly angry at the nation’s media.

“They just keep at it,” complained Schaale. “Move on to bigger issues,” urged Crum.

A president’s adultery, they said, should be a private matter. Even the discovery of more illicit affairs would not change the picture much.

“Cheat once, cheat twice,” shrugged Barbara Jean Smith, 34, a photographer who specializes in school pictures. “There’s probably a whole line of ‘em.”

Members of the panel said they are dissatisfied with Clinton’s Aug. 17 speech in which he expressed regret for his actions but did not explicitly apologize. They do not want an apology, they said, but they do want a sense that the president understands the gravity of his own faults.

“He hasn’t gotten it, and he hasn’t asked for help,” said Randy Ball, 50, a machine operator.

Indeed, several said they believe Clinton should seek professional help.

“I would be willing to give him six months of free sessions,” offered Bernita Bellafont, 45, a social worker.

Then, as knowing laughter rolled around the table, she blushed and added: “Counseling!”

Do you think President Clinton’s actions in the Monica S. Lewinsky matter justify his removal? Give your opinion on The Times’ Web site: https://www.latimes.com/scandal