EX-BLACK FLAG ROCKERS BATTLE THE MAINSTREAM

“We weren’t a band that came out and played a lot of our old songs,” reflects Black Flag founder/guitarist Greg Ginn in the wake of the local outfit’s recent announcement to call it quits after 10 years on the hardcore punk scene. “Obviously, we could’ve been a lot more popular if we’d done that. But that’s not what Black Flag was about, which was constant musical and ideological development.”

But Ginn downplays the significance of the breakup of the band that was a guiding light and moral force in the often turbulent world of punk. “Because everybody (in the band) wanted to do different things besides music or playing in Black Flag,” he summarizes, “it could no longer be as intensive as I felt it needed to be to maintain those ideals, so I thought it would be better to terminate it now.”

Interviewed at the Torrance offices of Global Network, the booking agency affiliated with Black Flag’s SST Records label, the soft-spoken Ginn chooses his words carefully. Nevertheless, both he and former Flag bassist Chuck Dukowski, who heads the booking operation, resist any attempt to characterize them as theoreticians on the order of punk-rock’s Lenin and Trotsky.

“We don’t write that many books,” says Ginn with a laugh.

“That seems to be a common misnomer,” seconds Dukowski. “As if we were calculated social constructionists, creating premeditated situations for predetermined outcomes. Nothing could be further from the case. The theory goes into the attitude. Everything else is just improvised. We get up, play our instruments, do our business--we just live.”

In addition to the day-to-day demands of booking nearly 25 acts and running a record label that has issued close to 100 discs from such underground luminaries as the Minutemen, Husker Du, Sonic Youth and Bad Brains, Ginn and Dukowski continue their musical assault on the mainstream as the leaders of the rock groups Gone and SWA, respectively. These two acts will be appearing Friday at the Anticlub.

Along with the do-it-ourselves aesthetic that permeates the Flag’s South Bay scene like the police siren that wails in the background of the afternoon interview, Black Flag has been noted for its moral leadership of what has all-too-frequently been painted as a degenerate, if not nihilistic, movement.

Explains Ginn, “The difference between how we operate and how a lot of ‘underground’ labels operate is that we try to promote positive action and not get wrapped up in a lot of reactionary thinking.

“I’d rather think of music as ‘I like this’ instead of ‘I like this music because it attacks the kind of music and haircuts I don’t like.’ So many times the audience--even the ‘underground’ audience--demands something familiar, which is not particularly conducive to producing musical creativity.

“As far as the moralistic aspects,” Ginn continues, “I think that every band that goes out there expresses those things, whether you’re talking about Motley Crue or whomever.

“What made Black Flag different was not just whether we let our hair grow or whether we had a female in the band, but that we said, ‘No, you don’t have to come out onstage with a bottle of Jack Daniel’s in your hand.’ And that playing music was about playing music, not about partying or looking a certain way. That stuff is just pushing buttons to transfer a certain mentality to an audience for a couple hours a night. But it’s not real.”

More cynical observers might point out that punk-rock is a revolution that’s failed. Ginn agrees: “As far as a cultural revolution, punk-rock was co-opted into ‘new wave’ after about a year. I hate to be reactionary here, but I don’t see the Cars as anything more new or worthwhile than Boston.

“In the ‘60s, the demographics were different. There was a lot more chance for something that came out of a younger culture to impact upon society because there were more people in that younger culture. Right now the music is really conservative. Even in the ‘underground’ community. And I think that reflects what’s happening with the mood of the country. People want something safe and defined. They want the Boss and they want a boss, and that’s scary, you know?”

Adds Dukowski, “And beyond that, a little nostalgia . . . or escape.”

“But I think SST and Global and Black Flag have been positive in terms of doing a lot of things that other people had been neglecting,” asserts Ginn.

“We specialize in stuff that doesn’t fit into a particular market. If punk-rock did anything it created revolutions in certain people’s minds and gave them an opportunity to react in a certain way. It all comes down to a personal level and that’s the only place I trust it. It hasn’t been so much a ‘punk generation’ as a cycle of people moving in and out of the so-called movement when they decide they really want that straight job.”