Excerpts: Didn’t Discuss North’s Efforts With Reagan

Following are excerpts from testimony Wednesday by contra leader Adolfo Calero, who was asked by Senate committee counsel Paul Barbadoro and several senators to specify the source of the money he received during a congressional ban on U.S. support to the Nicaraguan rebels. In addition, Calero was asked about direct CIA help at the time, when such aid would have been illegal, and about any roles of President Reagan and Vice President George Bush in details of the operation:

(Sen. William S. Cohen (R-Me.) noted that, during the period the Boland amendment prohibiting aid to the contras was in force, “without the United States and (Lt.) Col. (Oliver L.) North, you would not have been in a position to continue the war effort.” )

Answer: Oh, I realize that without--if the United States didn’t wink an eye to other countries, we wouldn’t get anything. And I was told so by foreign officials that I addressed myself to.

(Earlier in the questioning, Barbadoro asked Calero about retired Air Force Maj. Gen. Richard V. Secord’s role in raising money, especially about $32 million from Saudi Arabia.)

Question: Did Gen. Secord ever suggest to you that he might be able to play a role in raising some money for you from foreign sources?

A: Yes, sir, he did.

Q: What did he tell you?

A: Well, I don’t remember--we had different meetings, but in one of those meetings he suggested he had friends in the . . . Middle East and that he would approach them. . . . Then, at one point, he said that . . . he might be able to get . . . between $15 and $25 million and that he would visit with these friends. And then he confirmed that he had visited with a sheik or a prince . . . .

(Later, Sen. Howell Heflin (D-Ala.) pressed Calero on whether he knew that some money he received may have been diverted from the profits on arms sales to Iran.)

Q: Mr. Calero, this investigation started on the issue of diversion of profits from Iranian arms sales to the contras. Did you, or any organization that you are connected with, receive any of the money from the Iranian arms sales?

A: I have denied receiving any of the money from the Iran arms sales. From the beginning.

Q: Is that your opinion, still, today?

A: Well, I have seen that Lake Resources did send money. And . . . apparently, we did get a minor, very minor portion . . . if the money in Lake Resources came from the diversion.

Q: The deposits from Lake Resources are two checks, one in the amount of $175,000, the other one in the amount of $25,000. Those deposits were made in your bank in November or October . . . 1985. According to the testimony that has been presented here by Gen. Secord and others, the United States did not involve itself in a manner by which profits could have been diverted until February of 1986. Therefore, if the deposits were made before any diversion occurred of profits from an arms sale, then you did not receive any aid from arms diversion to your group of contras that were involved?

A: No, sir.

(Later, Rep. Louis Stokes (D-Ohio) returned to the subject of the Mideast origin of much of the money Calero was receiving.)

Q: This morning, in your testimony, you talked about having no idea where the $32 million in donations, from one source, came from. This money was virtually the lifeblood of your effort for more than a year.

A: Yes, sir.

Q: But you asked no one where it came from?

A: No, sir. It did not interest me. I had an inkling that it came from a Middle Eastern source. And I understood this to be a covert thing. And . . . I didn’t want to be privy to information that I do not need. . . . What mattered was that frankly we had the money, and not who had given it to us.

(Barbadoro probed Calero’s direct relations with Reagan . )

Q: Mr. Calero, did you ever meet with the President of the United States?

A: Yes, sir, a number--three, four times, I think.

Q: When did you meet with him?

A: The first time in April of 1985.

Q: What was the purpose of the meeting?

A: The UNO Directorate was introduced to him, and we met in the office of Mr. (Robert C.) McFarlane (then national security adviser).

Q: How long was the meeting?

A: I don’t know. Ten minutes or so--I mean, it was more of a protocolary meeting, I would say.

Q: In general, what did you discuss?

A: I don’t think we came to a discussion. It was just a matter of meeting the President, thanking him for what he had done for us and telling him of our decision, about our intent. . . .

Q: Did you discuss the contributions you had been receiving with the President?

A: No, no.

Q: You weren’t thanking him for the contributions you had received?

A: No, I was thanking him for his position vis-a-vis our situation.

Q: Did you discuss with the President the assistance that Col. North had been giving you?

A: No. No, no.

Q: In any of the meetings with the President that you had, did you discuss either the contributions you had received or the support that Col. North was giving you?

A: No, sir. No.

(Later, Heflin asked about the Iran sales diversion and also asked whether there had been any meetings with Bush.)

Q: You mention your visits with the President. Did he at any time . . . indicate to you any statement or anything that would indicate that he knew anything about the diversion of arms sales from Iran to aid the contras?

A: No, sir.

Q: Well . . . did you meet with the vice president?

A: On a . . . particular visit in which we expressed our gratitude and he expressed his willingness to continue to insist on aid to us.

Q: How many visits did you have with the vice president?

A: One in his office. But I had met him in various--two or three social-political events, let’s say.

(Noting the previous day’s testimony when North’s courier, Robert W. Owen, said he had delivered to Calero maps and intelligence photographs provided by the CIA, Barbadoro asked Calero for more details.)

Q: Either directly or indirectly, did you get them (maps and photos) from Col. North?

A: They could have come, yes. They could have come from him. And I remember maps with radar installations.

Q: You wouldn’t have gotten these maps from the CIA directly, would you?

A: No, the CIA sort of stayed away from us here.

Q: All right. During the period the Boland amendment was in effect, what kind of support did you get from the CIA?

A: They got support from us, I would say. We used to give them a lot of intelligence, a lot of information. They were always after us, trying to find out what we were doing.

Q: In fact, you’ve characterized them as more “snoopers” than “helpers” during this period. Is that right?

A: I used that word before, yes.

(Later, Sen. George J. Mitchell (D-Me.) probed Calero’s relations with the late William J. Casey, then director of the CIA.)

A: . . . I developed an affection for Mr. Casey. I used to refer to him as my “Uncle Bill.” (Laughter.) And I went to his funeral, I expressed my sympathy to his wife and daughter, and I felt very touched by what happened to him.