‘Nightline’ Interview Still Retains Some of Initial Shock Value

A television set can be a comfort in a losing baseball clubhouse. The images and sounds can soothe the pain and drown the mutterings of defeat.

Dodger players lingering in the clubhouse at the Houston Astrodome a year ago tonight, after an opening-game loss to the Astros, nibbled from the postgame buffet, took an extra long time to dress and, yes, even looked up at the TV set mounted in a corner.

They saw their boss, Dodger Vice President Al Campanis, being interviewed as part of ABC’s “Nightline” report on the 40th anniversary of Jackie Robinson’s becoming baseball’s first black player. “What’s the Chief doing on ‘Nightline’?” one player is said to have asked. There were shrugs, and the curiosity soon diminished.

It was not until the next morning, when the impact of Campanis’ statements about blacks in baseball was felt, that most Dodger players realized what they had seen the night before.

In the tumultuous days that followed, groups such as the Urban League and the NAACP urged the Dodgers to disassociate themselves from Campanis, while everyone from Rev. Jesse Jackson to Henry Aaron to Rachel Robinson, Jackie’s widow, commented on what had been widely perceived as an example of latent racism in America.

Throughout the ordeal, Dodger players were mostly numbed by the events. If it did not directly affect the Dodgers’ play, it certainly didn’t enhance it, either.

Now, a year later, when those close to the situation recall the incident, it is often with bewilderment. As if in a dream , romance novelists might write. Dodger players and staff refer to “the Campanis thing” furtively and mostly not for publication.

Even in the retelling, gathered from conversations with the principals and from observations of someone who covered it, it retains some of its initial shock value.

Campanis watched the Dodgers’ 4-3 loss to Houston in the press box, talking with several Los Angeles writers and Steve Brener, then the Dodgers’ publicity director. Campanis was dressed in a blue suit for his appearance on “Nightline,” which he was to make with Don Newcombe, a former Dodger pitcher and currently the club’s director of community services, and Roger Kahn, author of several books on baseball and the Brooklyn Dodgers, who would be interviewed from a different location.

But Newcombe had problems making airplane connections from San Jose, where he was giving a speech, and did not arrive in time. During the game, an ABC worker came to the press box and informed Campanis that he would go on television without Newcombe.

After the final out, at 10:22, CDT, Campanis was escorted to the field where a single chair sat behind home plate. A few feet away stood a mini-cam and strobe light on tripods. At 10:30, he was interviewed live, in the Eastern and Central time zones, by Ted Koppel.

During the interview, Campanis said that blacks “may not have the necessities to be, let’s say, a field manager or perhaps a general manager.” He also hypothesized on why there are not many black quarterbacks and pitchers and uttered a statement that offended many sensibilities: “Why are black men, or black people, not good swimmers? Because they don’t have the buoyancy.”

While the Dodger general manager’s career flashed before the eyes of “Nightline” viewers, Manager Tom Lasorda and his players were explaining their opening-night loss to reporters. They were seemingly oblivious to the television.

Reporters filing stories from the press box could look down on the field at Campanis. Eventually, the television light dimmed and Campanis rose from the chair and returned to the team’s hotel. Tape of the show would not be aired in Los Angeles for three more hours, at which time Campanis would be asleep.

By 1 a.m., Central time, the first reviews of Campanis’ interview were in. He was awakened by a call from a Los Angeles reporter in Houston, asking for a comment about his earlier comments. Campanis said he did not realize such questions were going to be asked but did not deny his statements.

The next morning, Peter O’Malley, the Dodger owner, first learned of the interview from a reporter. A few hours later, after receiving word of the negative public opinion from Los Angeles, O’Malley received a tape of the interview from the ABC affiliate in Houston and watched it.

By this time, various minority groups in Los Angeles issued statements and held press conferences to decry Campanis’ remarks. Aaron, a top-ranking executive with the Atlanta Braves, said he had received phone calls from reporters from New York, Los Angeles and other sections of the country.

Most Dodger players were aware of Campanis’ comments by the time the bus left to take them to the Astrodome for the second game of the season.

Bill Madlock, the outspoken third baseman now playing in Japan, had arrived early to get treatment on his right shoulder and was greeted at his locker by three TV crews. Madlock, who is black, told wave after wave of writers and broadcasters that he was personally offended by the remarks, especially because he wanted to be a major league manager. Other black players on the Dodgers, such as Ken Landreaux and Ken Howell, were sought out by reporters.

Players in the clubhouse made sure they were around a television set when Madlock’s interview was aired on a local sports report.

Many players, to whom almost no subject matter is taboo if there is a joke in it, were strangely silent. There was mostly just head-shaking and mumbling.

O’Malley still had not commented at game time, but midway through the Dodgers’ 6-5 loss to the Astros, Brener handed out a written apology from both Campanis and the club. No mention of Campanis’ job status was mentioned, and O’Malley was not available for comment.

By the morning of the third day, public reaction had escalated. The Dodgers arrived at the Astrodome at 10 a.m. for an afternoon game before heading to Los Angeles.

Players were still talking about the episode, wondering if Campanis’ job was safe, when O’Malley walked into the clubhouse and asked reporters to wait outside. One veteran player said the only other time he has ever seen O’Malley in the clubhouse was when he accepted the World Series championship trophy on television in 1981.

The look on O’Malley’s face foretold the announcement.

O’Malley told players to gather in a circle, and he said, in a relatively unemotional voice, that Campanis had been “asked to resign” and that Fred Claire would take over as vice president of player personnel “for the time being.”

The news was greeted with silence and, less than five minutes later, O’Malley met with writers who regularly cover the Dodgers in an adjoining clubhouse office that had a capacity of about three, not the assembled eight. O’Malley again made the brief announcement and calmly asked, “Any questions?”

O’Malley denied that public opinion swayed his decision concerning Campanis, who flew back to Los Angeles that morning. O’Malley would not say what prompted him to change his mind. He simply said that the statements, put in any context, were inexcusable and went against everything the Dodgers stand for.

Only slightly fazed, at least outwardly, Dodger players went about their batting practice and warming up. But some players who had been close to Campanis, such as Bob Welch and Pedro Guerrero, took the news especially hard.

Lasorda repaired to his office and openly wept when reporters entered. He failed to choke back tears in recalling his nearly four decades of working with Campanis. He said he loved Campanis like a brother and that he was sure Campanis did not mean what he said. “He was just confused,” Lasorda said.

That day, the Dodgers lost for the third straight time to the Astros, 7-3.

The television set had been turned off afterward, as players quickly dressed to catch a charter flight to Los Angeles, where they would land in plenty of time to watch an update on the Campanis situation on “Nightline,” this time with Reggie Jackson and sociologist Harry Edwards serving as guests.