Reagan Tapes Testimony for Poindexter Case

Former President Ronald Reagan testified behind closed doors for about six hours here Friday, facing some of the most detailed questions he has ever had to answer about his role in the Iran-Contra affair that rocked the closing years of his second term.

Called as a defense witness by former White House National Security Adviser John M. Poindexter, Reagan’s appearance was videotaped so his testimony can be scrubbed clean of any diplomatic and military secrets that may have been mentioned. The tape will then be made public, perhaps as early as next week.

U.S. District Judge Harold H. Greene, scheduled to preside over Poindexter’s trial in Washington, starting March 5, brought his court--lawyers, clerks and others--to Los Angeles to make it as convenient as possible for Reagan to appear. Poindexter’s lawyers plan to play the videotape for the jury once the prosecution completes its case, making Reagan the star witness for the defense of his former aide.

Reagan spent six hours and 40 minutes in Courtroom 8 on the second floor of the Federal C Courthouse in the Civic Center, answering the initial batch of the 154 specific questions that Greene earlier authorized Poindexter’s lawyers to ask. The 79-year-old former President is scheduled to return this morning for more questioning.

Reporters were kept more than 100 yards from the courtroom, which was guarded by a contingent of U.S. marshals, when Reagan, accompanied by lawyers and Secret Service bodyguards, walked across the hall from a stairwell to the court in the morning and back in the afternoon. He gave a somewhat tentative wave each time but said nothing.

There were no such restrictions when Greene, Poindexter, lawyers and other participants departed for the day. But they provided little information about the extraordinary session.

Greene said the hearing would resume at 9:45 a.m. today. When asked how many of the 154 questions were asked Friday, the judge would say only that the taping will conclude today, apparently indicating that much of the ground had been covered.

Poindexter’s only comment as he left the courtroom was: “You’ll have to ask someone else.”

Facing five felony counts of obstruction of Congress, making false statements and conspiracy, Poindexter sought Reagan’s testimony to bolster his contention that his activities were authorized by the former President. Greene ruled that the retired rear admiral could not get a fair trial unless he was allowed to call Reagan as a witness.

Richard W. Beckler, Poindexter’s lawyer, originally submitted a list of 183 questions that he hoped to ask. Greene threw out 29 of them because he said they had no relevancy to the case or touched too closely on military or diplomatic secrets. However, he said that Beckler could ask the others, following up if necessary but introducing no new subjects.

Dan K. Webb, the chief prosecutor for Iran-Contra independent counsel Lawrence E. Walsh, cross-examined Reagan.

The hearing posed something of a tactical dilemma for Webb. In the context of the Poindexter case, his chief objective is to discredit the suggestion that Reagan authorized the activities of his national security adviser. But from a larger standpoint, the hearing provides the independent counsel’s office with the best chance it may ever get to assess Reagan’s role in the affair, which involved the sale of arms to Iran and the diversion of profits to the Contras in Nicaragua.

Although the judge did not make public the precise questions, he said they fell into several broad categories, such as the extent of Reagan’s knowledge of the shipment of missiles to Iran and the former President’s understanding of legislation which for a time barred U.S. assistance to the Contras.

Reagan originally asked to be excused from testifying on the grounds that a subpoenaed court appearance would diminish the dignity of the office of the presidency. But Greene ruled earlier this month that Reagan would have to testify unless he invoked the doctrine of executive privilege, something the former President declined to do.

“Although (Poindexter) might not have a valid defense based directly on the claim that his illegal activities, if any, were known to the President, the fact of the President’s knowledge of, and apparent acquiescence in, such activities--if that is what occurred--would be material evidence, for it would bear on (Poindexter’s) specific intent to commit various offenses,” Greene said in ordering Reagan to provide the taped testimony.

Reagan and some other participants had lunch brought to the courtroom that is usually presided over by Manuel L. Real, chief judge of the Central District of California. However, Poindexter and a few others left the courtroom for lunch, delaying the taping by about an hour.

With no matters of substance leaking out of the courtroom, a swarm of reporters interviewed whomever they could. When Steve Preoteasa, a Romanian immigrant who runs the International Deli in the Los Angeles Mall across the street from the courthouse, arrived with a tray of turkey, ham, roast beef and chicken salad sandwiches, he briefly became the center of attention.

Preoteasa, an outspoken anti-Communist, said he wanted to tell Reagan that he was a longtime admirer. But the marshals would not let him into the courtroom, choosing instead to carry in the sandwiches and an order of Chinese food that arrived shortly after.

The Reagan drama was played out in one of several large courtrooms on the second floor of the 17-story 1930s-era building. It is frequently referred to as “the ceremonial courtroom” because many of the court’s most formal functions take place there.

The walls are decorated with 14 large oil paintings of the men who have been the chief judge of the central district.

Three cameras were used to tape the hearing, one trained on Reagan, one on the judge and one on the lawyer asking the questions.

Security in the courthouse is usually very heavy with metal detectors regularly used to screen all visitors. Samuel Cicchino, chief deputy U.S. marshal, said his agents sealed off Courtroom 8, permitting entry only to authorized people. He said everyone who goes into the courtroom is photographed.

“Everything is going rather smoothly,” he told reporters a few hours after the hearing began.

Staff writer Henry Weinstein contributed to this story.

PRESIDENTIAL COURT TESTIMONY

Former President Ronald Reagan waived his right of executive privilege to give videotaped evidence Friday that will be used in the defense of former National Security Adviser John M. Poindexter. Poindexter faces criminal charges arising from the Iran-Contra scandal. Reagan is not the first to provide court testimony:

1807: President Thomas Jefferson provided a sworn statement for the treason trial of Aaron Burr, who was accused of trying to foment a rebellion in part of the newly acquired Louisiana Purchase. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Marshall originally ruled that Jefferson could be compelled to appear in court but agreed on the precedent-setting compromise allowing the statement alone.

1870s: President Ulysses S. Grant gave a deposition in the criminal trial of his confidential secretary.

1975: President Gerald R. Ford presented testimony on videotape at the trial of his would-be assassin Lynette (Squeaky) Fromme.

1978: President Jimmy Carter provided on videotape testimony at a criminal trial in Georgia in which two state officials were charged with conspiracy to protect gambling interests. Carter had been Georgia’s governor.

1980: President Jimmy Carter also presented videotape testimony for a grand jury investigating Robert Vesco, the fugitive financier.

1980: Former President Richard M. Nixon, after leaving office, appeared voluntarily as a witness at the trial of two ex-FBI agents, who were found guilty of authorizing illegal break-ins in search of fugitive members of the radical Weather Underground. Nixon also provided depositions in some Watergate-related trials.

Compiled by Times Researcher Aleta Embrey