Builder Negotiates to Build Scaled-Down Outlet Center : Camarillo: Critics say the city doesn’t need more malls. Supporters say shoppers are going outside the city.

Residents who fought to have The Sammis Co. withdraw its factory outlet mall proposal may find other developers building a scaled-down version and a shopping center at the other end of Camarillo.

Willey Creek, a New Hampshire developer that has been working with Sammis for the past three years to build a factory outlet mall on 86 1/2 acres of celery fields off Pleasant Valley Road, is negotiating with owners of another site.

Willey Creek has built factory outlet centers nationwide. Now it wants to erect a 250,000- to 300,000-square-foot mall on 30 acres south of the Ventura Freeway between Carmen Drive and Las Posas Road. The land, known as the Koll Leonard site, is zoned for retail use.

“It would work just as well as the other site,” Willey Vice President Leo Swift said.

Despite some residents’ opinions that Camarillo already has enough places to shop, Willey Creek and two other developers are considering building shopping centers within a few miles of each other.

“I don’t understand what we’re building more malls for, or who we’re building more malls for,” said Lin Anderson, a Camarillo businesswoman who fought the Sammis mall.

“They certainly aren’t building to benefit the community,” she said. “They’re building for the good of the contractors.”

Two of the three developers--Willey Creek and the Santa Barbara-based Mission Gelles I--are interested in constructing a factory outlet mall. And two--Mission Gelles I and the Newport Beach-based TMI--are considering building a “power center,” but they all agree that there is demand for only one of each in Camarillo. A power center contains discount department stores with high-volume sales.

Bill Torrence, another foe of the Sammis proposal, doesn’t see a need for more shopping centers, given the number of strip centers and vacant storefronts throughout the city.

“I can understand perhaps one group of factory outlets,” Torrence said. “But if they’re trying to get two malls, we’re going to be absolutely snowed.”

But city planners and Chamber of Commerce President Cindy Sawyer say Camarillo needs more stores, because studies have shown that residents are leaving the city to spend their shopping dollars and sales taxes.

“We’re losing it, and it’s being collected by another jurisdiction,” said Tony Boden, Camarillo’s director of planning and community development.

Because roadwork has already been done on the Koll Leonard site, Swift said the new mall could be open within seven months after permits are obtained. Because the property is already zoned for retail, the Planning Commission would consider only whether the proposed design complies with zoning requirements, said Bob Burrows, senior planner.

If the demand exists and the city approves a General Plan amendment, Swift said he may want to expand later onto an adjacent 60 acres, which is not zoned for commercial use.

A group of developers is interested in building a 25-acre factory mall or a power center on the Mission Gelles I site.

The City Council recently agreed to consider a General Plan amendment requested by Mission Gelles I to change the use of its property--west of Las Posas Road and north of the Camarillo Airport--from office to commercial.

TMI, a developer that holds 60 acres in the same area, is interested in building a shopping center, said TMI consultant Jack Dimond of the Escondido-based Dimond Group.

That property, however, is still zoned for agricultural use, so TMI would have to obtain an amendment to the General Plan to allow for commercial use. Dimond said he has begun talking with several national department stores about locating in the center, but he declined to be more specific.

Although Sammis encountered raucous debate over its factory outlet mall proposal, withdrawing it late last year to gather community input on an alternative proposal, Swift said he does not anticipate the same kind of opposition. Sammis may be involved with the Willey Creek proposal, but in the background, he said.

But developer Steven Craig said Willey Creek doesn’t know the community as well as it thinks it does.

“I think Willey Creek was a little naive in understanding the ins and outs and the community concerns,” Craig said.

Craig’s company, Ginsburg Craig Associates of Newport Beach, is working with Harry Gelles on two alternatives for the Mission Gelles I site--a factory outlet mall or a power center.

Craig said he has learned from what happened to Sammis.

“Whatever we develop, there’s going to be an extreme degree of sensitivity to community concerns,” he said. “It’s clearly a very politically connected town.”

Although Swift acknowledged that he and Mission Gelles I are considering a factory outlet mall for the same general area, he said: “It’s not a race. If Steve Craig went in tomorrow, he gets all his permits and breaks ground, he’s in.”

Swift, who described Ginsburg Craig as a friendly competitor, said he is confident that his plan will become reality before his competitor’s.