Gore-Perot Debate May Be Trade Pact’s Turning Point

Vice President Al Gore and billionaire Ross Perot prepared Monday for what may be a decisive televised debate tonight on the North American Free Trade Agreement, while the Administration stepped up its efforts to sway undecided lawmakers.

The two camps agreed to a format for the debate--to begin at 6 p.m. PST on CNN’s “Larry King Live”--that will permit the free-wheeling give-and-take that could make the event the dramatic highlight of the fight over the trade agreement.

The two men will sit on either side of the moderator and will take questions from King for 45 minutes and from telephone callers for an additional 45 minutes. There will be no other rules, CNN President Tom Johnson said.

In an effort to prevent any partisan group from dominating the calls, two CNN producers, well versed on the trade legislation--which would phase out tariffs with Mexico and Canada over 15 years--will screen the telephone traffic. There will be no studio audience.

As is customary before such debates, both camps sought Monday to influence public expectations over the encounter. White House aides described Perot as a master of the sound bite, but insisted that Gore would correct Perot’s misstatements about the trade agreement over the course of the lengthy discussion.

Perot is “the master of the one-liner--he’s great at the quip,” said Dee Dee Myers, the White House press secretary. “But 90 minutes is a lengthy forum.”

Paul Begala, a White House political adviser, hit Perot harder, saying that the Texas billionaire’s public allegation Sunday about an assassination attempt on his life by Cuban hit men revealed a conspiratorial view of the world that is also evident in his arguments on the trade agreement.

Begala called Perot a “quitter,” who has abandoned one undertaking after another in his career and now wants the United States to abandon its commitment to an international trade agreement.

“No one can out-sound-bite Ross Perot,” he said. “You can get twice as many sound bites when you talk out of both sides of your mouth.”

Sharon Holman, Perot’s spokeswoman, took a shot in return at the White House team, saying that Perot was following his usual routine in his north Dallas office tower.

He “doesn’t need anyone to prepare him or write one-liners for him. . . . He’s done 92 rallies about NAFTA, written a book on it that’s on the best-seller list and done two 30-minute commercials about it,” she said.

Gore spent much of the day discussing the debate with Jack Quinn, his chief of staff. He was to meet Monday night with his longtime debate aide, Robert Squier, and White House aides David Gergen, George Stephanopoulos, Mark D. Gearan and Michael Waldman for a mock debate.

White House officials contended that Gore’s first goal is simply to reach a national audience with accurate information about what the treaty will accomplish to counter what they say are Perot’s exaggerations and misstatements.

But political analysts noted that, since the largest part of the audience will hear details of the match indirectly, through newspaper and television accounts, Gore also will need to produce catchy phrases that can stand up to Perot’s.

About 60% of American households get CNN. But the show will be appearing in prime-time during the November TV “sweeps” period, when stations carry their most appealing movies and programs.

“I would tell him he needs to get right out front and pull the mask off Perot,” said Frank Luntz, a pollster who worked for Perot last year.

Gore may have the edge in the political “expectations” game that favors the underdog, because many observers--including some advocates of the trade pact--have declared Perot better able to communicate with average Americans. But Perot already has accomplished a good deal for his cause by being recognized as a spokesman for the forces that oppose the accord and being invited to take the stage with the vice president, analysts say.

Some analysts contend that the biggest risk to Perot is that he will be provoked into angry reaction, reinforcing an impression held by some Americans that he is hot-tempered and erratic.

But Russell Verney, a Perot aide, said that the Texan is in a “no-lose position.” A victory for the trade agreement would prove his arguments about the domination of special interests and spur membership in his United We Stand America, Verney said. A defeat would save jobs and elevate his stature immeasurably, the aide added.

Some analysts said that, if both men hold their own tonight, the debate may not change the outcome of the battle. However, if one of them commits a major blunder or scores a rhetorical master stroke it could tip the outcome of what has become a very tight battle to sway congressional opinion.

Meanwhile, Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen said Monday that organized labor’s opposition to the trade agreement “disturbs me.”

“I think they’re totally wrong insofar as NAFTA,” he said.

The words echoed President Clinton’s similar comments Sunday, which compelled White House officials with close ties to labor to spend much of the day Sunday and again Monday trying to mend fences.

“It’s safe to say I’ve been on the phone a lot the last 24 hours,” said White House political director Joan Baggett, a former union official. Baggett insisted that Clinton’s remarks were not part of a planned attack on labor. “I don’t have the sense that anything was planned. He just got started talking about the opposition,” she said. “It just sort of popped out.”

She was referring to a televised interview Sunday in which the President blamed the “roughshod, muscle-bound tactics” of organized labor for the difficulty he faces in trying to win support in Congress for the agreement.

Administration officials said they have been fortunate to avoid a confrontation with labor over the trade agreement this long. And they expressed hope that once the debate ends--win or lose--relations can be repaired with the unions--a major force behind Clinton’s top domestic priority, health care reform.

“If this were something that could go on indefinitely, it could be extremely serious,” said one White House official. “Having a finite end is the most positive thing that can be said about this.”

The President spent most of Monday meeting with small groups of lawmakers to make his arguments for the agreement. Clinton conducted three meetings at the White House with two or three lawmakers at a time, then invited 15 or 20 more over for dinner.

For its final push before the trade vote, United We Stand America is organizing demonstrations at noon Saturday at the district offices of all members of the House of Representatives.

Times staff writers John M. Broder and David Lauter contributed to this story.

* POLITICAL IMPACT: If Clinton wins on NAFTA it could boost other projects. A14

Viewer Guide to Tonight’s Debate

The debate on NAFTA will be carried live from CNN’s Washington studios.

* Time: 6 p.m. PST tonight

* TV: CNN will air the debate live, then replay it in full beginning at 9:30 p.m.

* Radio: KCRW-FM (89.9) and KPCC-FM (89.3)

* Moderator: Larry King

* Format: Tonight’s debate will differ from presidential debates in at least two aspects. The participants will face questions from callers instead of a panel of reporters, and coverage will include commercials. King will allow Perot and Gore to argue as he sees fit.

Homes that receive CNN: 60%

Homes that do not get cable: 40%