COVER STORY : We’re Listening, Ted : Ted Turner recently bought two movie companies--it would appear that he’s not just interested in old movies. But what are his plans for new movies? A Q&A; with Turner as he moves full speed into moguldom

A\o7 TLANTA\f7 —  Being ushered in to see Ted Turner in his basketball-court-sized office is like being ushered in to see the Wizard of Oz. Past a boardroom corridor lined with movie stills, Oscar statuettes (acquired from MGM) and an oil painting of Rhett Butler (an early hero of Turner’s, even before he acquired rights to “Gone With the Wind”), Turner opens the door to an office that has a wall of gleaming silver yachting trophies, a bank of TV screens and a small sign with his trademark slogan: “Lead, follow or get out of the way.”

Turner, 55, is one of the great success stories in American business, and many competitors have lost money underestimating the driven, brash, impulsive Southerner who crashed the network television business in 1976 the way he crashed the genteel America’s Cup yachting world.

Now, after amassing a fortune of more than $2 billion in the advertising, cable-TV (his company operates five cable networks--CNN, TBS, TNT, Headline News and the Cartoon Network--and later this month will launch a sixth, Turner Classic Movies) and sports businesses (he owns baseball’s Atlanta Braves and basketball’s Atlanta Hawks), he has become a Hollywood mogul--albeit long distance, from his headquarters here.

His Turner Broadcasting System purchased the MGM library in 1986, acquired the Hanna-Barbera animation studio in 1992 and last year bought two movie companies, New Line Cinema (“Nightmare on Elm Street,” “The Player”) and Castle Rock Entertainment (“City Slickers,” “A Few Good Men,” “In the Line of Fire,” TV’s “Seinfeld”).

They join the in-house production unit he already had, Turner Pictures, which had concentrated on TV movies but now is stepping up theatrical production after its first venture into that area last year with “Gettysburg.”

“Turner has really created a de facto mini-major studio at a significantly lower price than anyone else has been able to do,” said Allan Kazzan, entertainment analyst for the Morgan Stanley investment firm in New York. “Castle Rock has great creative talent, and New Line has had the highest market share for any of the independents. If they can put it all together creatively . . . I think Turner may have pulled off the deal of the century.”

Turner has grown more serious over the years, and his $1.2-billion purchase of the MGM library forced him to take on partners (Time Warner and Tele-Communications Inc.) that have prevented him from acting unilaterally. Nevertheless, he remains passionate in his opinions, funny and disarmingly candid, both about his competitors and his own plans. In an interview, Turner discussed movies, his desire to own one of the Big Three broadcast networks and his marriage to Jane Fonda.

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Question: Why did you want to buy Castle Rock and New Line?

Answer: The main programming element of our entertainment networks (TNT and TBS) is movies. We are starting a third network, Turner Classic Movies, that will show classic movies. We are expanding abroad, and we need to keep our film library fresh and alive to program our networks. We were producing a couple of theatrical films already, and we want to be in the movie business as well as the TV business because theatrical films get so much more attention and promotion than TV films. Plus, with interactivity (coming to television), we need to be involved in home video as well as theatrical films and pay-per-view.

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Q: Do you envision Castle Rock, New Line and Turner Pictures operating separately?

A: Absolutely. They’re certainly going to operate separately from a creative and marketing standpoint. They’ve been operating successfully that way.

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Q: So the executives who run Castle Rock, for example, will continue to do so from a creative standpoint?

A: Absolutely.

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Q: Do you see yourself getting involved in the kinds of movies that New Line might make?

A: Not really. I’m excited about what they’re doing. Whenever you do as many as 20 movies a year, as they are doing, you’re going to personally like some and not like others.

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Q: What kind of movies do you personally like?

A: I like a wide variety of films, but I guess I prefer historical dramas--”Gone With the Wind,” “Dr. Zhivago,” “Lawrence of Arabia.” I would drift more to those than even the best of the comedies, like “9 to 5” and “Airplane.” I paid cash money to see “Aladdin,” “Beauty and the Beast” and “The Little Mermaid.” I’m in the cartoon business, but I probably would have gone to see them anyway. These are supposed to be kids’ movies, but I’m 55 and I went to see them.

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Q: You’ve been outspoken on the subject of violence. . . .

A: That’s right: gratuitous violence. There was a lot of violence in “Gettysburg,” but I consider it anti-violence and anti-war. The type of violence in “Single White Female”--I get some of this from Jane--where sex and violence and attacks on women are mixed together, I think it’s tragic that movies are made that titillate about violence in that way.

There are so many people going in and out of jail for violent crimes against women, for rape, for child molestation. You know that everything we’re exposed to influences us--our teachers, our parents. Those films influence us and the TV programs we see influence us. The weaker your family is, the more they influence you. . . . The problems with families in our cities are catastrophic--but when you put violent programs (before) people who haven’t had a lot of love in their lives, who are angry anyway, it’s like pouring gasoline on the fire.

I went for four or five years where I refused to air movie trailers for R-rated movies (on TBS). Every one of the movie studios told us, “If you don’t take the R-rated movies, you’re not going to get the Gs and PGs.” For five years, we had a virtual total boycott. And it was a time when we really needed the revenue. Today, we carry trailers for R-rated movies, but we review them and we don’t carry anything with gratuitous violence in it.

I was offered the Carolco library several years ago, with one of the worst movies, the “Rambo” series, and I wouldn’t buy it. I saw the first “Rambo.” Here we are trying to heal the country and what that movie did was to make people hate the Vietnamese. The Vietnamese were innocent. We’re the ones that started that war; they never attacked the United States!

We’ve run some of Chuck Norris’ films on our networks. “Rambo” to me is a pro-war film--making it look like fun, blowing people away.

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Q: New Line Cinema has made a lot of money producing some violent movies, including the “Nightmare on Elm Street” series. Are you going to say to them, “Don’t do ‘Freddy Krueger 12’ ”?

A: No, I’m not. I’ve basically given them creative control.

I’ve seen the Freddy Krueger movies. Horror, to me, when it’s obviously tongue-in-cheek, is not as bad as the mixing of sex and gratuitous violence. With a horror movie, a genre that goes back to Bela Lugosi, you know it’s a scary movie. Nobody is going to put knives on their fingers like Freddy Krueger.

(“Nightmare on Elm Street”) is not the thing I’m proudest about from (New Line). I’m prouder of “Menace II Society.” That had violence in it, but it wasn’t pushing violence. To me, it was a movie that abhorred violence.

New Line has made some movies with violence in them, and I guess they will continue to do so. Will it give me some trouble? Yes. Does it give them some trouble? I’m sure it does.

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Q: I’ve heard that there was one script that New Line wanted to buy, and you said it had too much violence in it. Is that true?

A: No. A long time back, before we made the deal, they may have asked me about a particular project that they turned down on their own.

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Q: On your own networks you’ve done a series of movies about Native Americans, an upcoming project on women’s history and the “Captain Planet” cartoon series for children about the environment. These all reflect your personal interests. Are you going to say to your movie studios, “I want you to do a movie about the environment”?

A: I’ve got Turner Pictures for that. If I’ve got a movie like “Gettysburg” that I just want to do, I can make it through Turner Pictures. New Line and Castle Rock have their own bonus plans and their own goals. I’m not going to force them to take projects that they don’t believe in. Bob Shaye has been running New Line for 25 years, starting from nothing, and he’s one of the few successful independents left; all the rest are gone. I’ve known Alan Horn (chairman of Castle Rock) for 20 years, since he was with Norman Lear and I bought “All in the Family” and “Sanford and Son” from them. I know what they stand for.

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Q: Are you going to look at scripts from your movie companies?

A: No. Well, I may occasionally. I didn’t even read the script for “Gettysburg.” I read the book and Jane read the script. But, I mean, I don’t know a good script from a bad script--I really don’t. I can say what I like and what I don’t like. I haven’t had enough time in the movie business to really feel confident that I know what people are going to come see.

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Q: Is Jane Fonda going to play a role in your movie studios?

A: Her company is producing a film for TNT, called “Lakota Woman.” She has bought the book “Pigs in Heaven” (by Barbara Kingsolver), which her company is going to do for Turner Pictures.

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Q: Do you think she wants to come back and star in movies?

A: She says no.

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Q: How do you think you’re regarded in Hollywood--as an outsider or an insider?

A: It all depends on the person; I know some people better than others. I don’t feel like an outsider. We’ve been a major customer of all the studios--licensing television and movies--for years.

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Q: I’ve been told that you would like to buy ABC or NBC. Is this true?

A: Buy, merge, acquire--whatever. I’ve said for years that I would like to buy a network. I made that clear when I made the unfriendly offer for CBS (in 1985). . . . I’d like to buy a network. I would like to have a studio--in fact, I’d like to have three or four studios and all four TV networks. And I’d like to have all the newspapers and magazines. I’d like to own the BBC, too--it’s not for sale; it belongs to the British people.

I’d like to own General Motors and General Foods, while we’re talking about it. And let’s not forget Coca-Cola and Delta Airlines--two companies that I can see out the window!

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Q: Have you been talking to NBC and ABC recently?

A: There’s a lot of talk that goes on from time to time. But under our ownership with Time Warner and TCI, as long as there are FCC regulations regarding cross-ownership, you can’t own (broadcast-network) owned-and-operated TV stations in the same market with cable. So the rules won’t allow us to do it.

We’ve been partners with Time Warner and the other cable operators since 1986, when they helped us after MGM. That partnership has worked very well. If the rules change, certainly I would like to own a network. The networks are coming back, and I believe they’ve proven they’re going to be around for a long time.

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Q: Are you willing to surrender your 52% voting control of your company to buy a network or make some new alliance?

A: I haven’t really had control for a long time. When you have two different owners of this company besides me that can veto any expenditure over $2 million, what kind of control is that, over a company that’s doing close to $3 billion (in revenue)? I have day-to-day operating control, but really only so long, I think, as I’m doing a good job.

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Q: Do you feel hamstrung by these arrangements?

A: Sometimes I feel hamstrung-- restrained would be a better word. Yes, there are times when this relationship is restraining, but there are lots of other times when it’s highly beneficial. Hopefully, the benefits will outweigh the restraints. There’s no way you can have partners without being restrained in some way.

I think my net worth has increased 10 to 20 times in the last seven years, and so has their investment. So from a financial standpoint, it’s been a very, very good relationship. And it’s been a lot of fun. I never regretted taking the partners I did. . . . I just don’t have enough money to own the company myself any more. You just can’t accumulate the billions of dollars in capital that are necessary--not in my lifetime, not today.

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Q: Are you and Time Warner going to separate at some point?

A: I don’t know. I doubt it. We’re getting along fine. We do compete in some areas, and we cooperate in some areas. In this industry, you do business with your competitors because there are only so many companies, and it makes sense to go through one or the other for various things. Here we are releasing a movie with Fox (“Pagemaster”), who’s a competitor. Rupert Murdoch is one of the largest customers for “CNN News Source” for his television stations, and we also buy programs from Columbia, another competitor, and they’re going to be distributing the Castle Rock movies for the next 3 1/2 years. Everybody needs everybody else in this business.

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Q: Would you ever sell CNN?

A: I have considered it a couple of times and come up with a big no.

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Q: From your heart?

A: Yes. I don’t want to sell it. I don’t want to sell anything. I want to buy. (In fact, since the interview, Turner has been exploring the purchase of the Home Shopping Network.) There are no assets here that aren’t pretty integral to the company. We’ve stayed in the programming and television business. CNN is an extension of that. Getting into the movie business is an extension of that.

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Q: You were interested in making a bid for Paramount recently, then dropped out. A lot of people in the entertainment industry are saying the deal cost Viacom too much ($10 billion). What do you think of the deal?

A: There’s no question it’s a lot of money to pay. It all depends on how successful they are with the assets they have. I think it’s important that the Blockbuster deal go through to give Sumner Redstone enough capital to spread that debt over and enough cash flow to help him retire the debt. Wayne Huizenga (Blockbuster chairman) is one of the smartest guys around--he’s proved that in two fields (waste management and home video)--and (Viacom Chief Executive) Frank Biondi’s smart, so it’s up to them. . . . It’s like asking who’s going to be the winner in the television of the future. It depends on who makes the right moves between now and then. Who’s going to win the World Series the year after next? Who knows? The team that makes the best moves. You can’t predict things statically.

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Q: The Paramount merger is happening, but the TCI-Bell Atlantic merger fell through. When you look down the road, do you see mega-mergers as the way the business is going?

A: It depends completely on your circumstances and what end of the business you’re in. I think a cable operator is very different from a motion-picture studio. If you’re going to be in the motion-picture business, you have to be big enough to compete in a major way. I think time has shown that the little independents just making a few pictures and depending on somebody else to distribute them without the income of a library--that’s not a viable operation. . . .

The whole business is like there’s a medium-sized fish, and there’s a big fish coming behind you, and a little fish in front of you, and you’re trying to eat the smaller fish before the bigger fish gets you.

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Q: Which one are you?

A: I think basically you have to look ahead and you have to look over your shoulder, too. We’re competing with the four broadcast networks. We’re competing with Viacom. ABC owns ESPN, and (Rupert) Murdoch has a studio and a TV network (Fox). NBC has a cable network, CNBC, and another one starting--and they’ve got General Electric behind them. Everyone has their problems and their opportunities.

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Q: Rupert Murdoch recently bought Star TV, the company that owns the huge communications satellite over Asia, carrying MTV and the BBC’s TV news channel. Murdoch has said that he wants to take CNN on internationally. Do you think you’re vulnerable there?

A: Virtually everyone in the TV-news business would like to go head-to-head with us and are trying. NBC has a Spanish network in South America. They recently bought (European superstation) SuperChannel, but they’re running “The Tonight Show” and the “Today” show on it. I don’t see how telling people the weather in Iowa plays in Europe.

Rupert said he was going to do an international news network, but they keep delaying it, don’t they? The BBC is trying to compete with CNN International. It takes a lot of money and commitment to do a 24-hour news service. CNN has been available around the world for the past five years and we were the first to connect the whole world. We’ve got a big head start, and nobody has mounted a credible challenge yet.

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Q: Years ago you used to delight in trashing the networks, saying you wanted to lower their share of the audience. . . .

A: We did. Their share of audience has gone from 90% to 60% in prime time.

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Q: When you started out with your superstation TBS (in 1976), did people take you seriously?

A: When I was first getting going, people fell out of their chairs laughing. The TV station I bought was going bankrupt; I couldn’t afford to buy a network affiliate. The smaller you are and the bigger you aim, the more hooting and hollering you’re going to get. That’s not just true of me. If you’re at McDonald’s making $1 an hour and you say, “I’m going for $1.10,” nobody’s going to doubt you. If you’ve got a dollar and you say, “I’m going to build a multibillion-dollar corporation that is going to rival the networks,” then they’re going to hoot at you. . . .

When I first got going (with TBS), I went to New York and said to one of the media buyers there, “We’re in 2% of households and we’re going to build a network.” He was in a swivel chair; he literally laughed so hard he fell back and nearly hit his head on the radiator. He said, “With that broken-down station in Atlanta? You’ve got to be kidding!” And I had to laugh with him.

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Q: Where is he now?

A: Actually, he’s still there--and one of our biggest customers. . . . I haven’t burned a lot of bridges.

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Q: (TCI president) John Malone, a friend of yours, recently was quoted saying that you’re a sound businessman, but you get emotional. Is that true?

A: Sure, I get emotional--doesn’t everybody? I get emotional when I see my kids. I get emotional when I see my wife. I cry at sad movies. I cried like a baby when I saw “8 Seconds.”

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Q: Really? Why?

A: It reminded me--the kid was having trouble; his father was pushing him all the time. And my father kind of pushed me. After the rodeo rider became world champion, he was getting married and thinking about quitting. . . . That’s how he got killed, getting gored by a Brahma bull. That’s the last thing I’d want to do--that bull wants to kill you.

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Q: Do you see the communications business as having only a few global companies in the future, or will there always be room for entrepreneurs?

A: Sure. There also will be big global companies--and we’re one of them, although we’re not as big as some of the others.

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Q: What other mountains do you want to climb?

A: From now on, what I’d like to do is quality. I’d like to make the best movies and TV programs that we can. Castle Rock does “Seinfeld,” one of the best sitcoms on TV. It’s intelligent and doesn’t dump on anyone. In our movies for TNT, we’ve done David Mamet’s “Life in the Theater,” Arthur Miller’s “The American Clock” and a lot of other good projects. We just had a three-hour documentary on Antarctica that got great reviews. We did “Captain Planet,” not “The X-Men” or Amy Fisher. I think we’ve got more serious, credible news than the other guys. We’ll continue to do those kinds of programs, with quality and relevance and benefit.

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Q: Is that more important to you today?

A: Well, what am I going to do with more money? I’m planning right now to give half of what I have away. Last year, I gave 10% of what I have away. I gave away $200 million of my $2 billion. I’m looking to getting my foundation up to $1 billion. The foundation works primarily in environment and population. There are so many problems in the world that need addressing.

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Q: What has been the biggest change in your life since your marriage to Jane Fonda?

A: It’s hard to say. I’m sure I’ve changed in a lot of subtle ways. When you make such a big change in your life, it’s bound to change you. You have to blend your lives together.

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Q: Has she made you more of a feminist?

A: Yes, probably, although I believed in women’s rights before. In many places in this world, they still practice female infanticide. In more than half the world, women don’t have equal rights with men.

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Q: Are you able to relax on your ranch in Montana?

A: I try to relax. But I end up doing a lot of work wherever I am, out in Montana or wherever I am. I get a big Fed Ex box of stuff every day, wherever I am.

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Q: Are you ever going to retire?

A: I don’t plan to.