Parents Split on Uniforms for Students : Survey: One hundred Ventura respondents either strongly back the concept for elementary schools or reject it as an attack on individual liberty.

Parents at Ventura’s 17 elementary schools are split sharply over whether their children should wear uniforms to school, a prospect raised by Supt. Joseph Spirito last week, a Times survey shows.

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One hundred parents, interviewed at Ventura Unified School District’s elementary campuses, either strongly supported uniforms as a timely back-to-basics tool or rejected them as an infringement on individual liberty.

Fifty-six parents favored uniforms because they would blur the distinction between rich and poor students, cut clothing costs, enhance discipline and send out a message that children go to school to learn, not to strut designer fashions.

“I think it’s a great idea,” said Pam Kottler, mother of a Pierpont School second-grader. “It’s like you dress one way for work and you dress another way for play.”

But 44 parents--especially those at Junipero Serra and Juanamaria schools--said uniforms promote conformity for no good reason, since gang-related dress is only a safety problem at middle and high schools.

“I think it’s communist,” said John Godinez as he dropped off his daughter at Montalvo School Friday morning. “What’s wrong with the way kids dress now? This is a public school, right?”

Spirito, an avid backer of student uniforms, revealed last week that he had taken his plan to create one “back-to-basics” elementary school a step further, and will ask that every elementary school principal soon poll parents to measure their feelings on uniforms.

“What I’m hearing from parents is, ‘Why can’t my neighborhood school have that?’ ” Spirito said. “I’m saying, “Go ahead. You can if you get a consensus.’ ”

If at least 75% of parents from a school vote for uniforms, then Spirito said the district would seriously consider the request.

Parents at each school could also decide to implement one or all of the other key elements of the district’s back-to-basics program, Spirito said. Those are strict discipline, a curriculum that emphasizes traditional teaching methods and a requirement that parents spend time helping at school.

And if a strict uniform dress code is successful on the elementary level, Spirito said he would support it at middle schools as well.

“I want it to start at the bottom and work its way up,” he said. “If a parent says yes to a uniform for a third-grader, I think that parent will say yes in middle school.”

Spirito’s announcement last week came as more public schools throughout the state and nation consider requiring student uniforms as a way to cut violence linked to youth gang dress.

The Long Beach Unified School District, which has a far more serious gang problem than the Ventura district, recently became the first in the state to require all elementary and junior high students to wear uniforms, beginning next fall.

Whether Long Beach’s new policy would withstand legal challenge is not clear. Some school districts say such a strict dress code might violate a state law that reaffirms students’ freedom of speech and rights under the First Amendment.

A legislative bill that explicitly allows districts to mandate student uniforms passed the state Senate Education Committee Thursday on a 5-0 vote. The bill would require districts to purchase uniforms for students who could not afford them. Spirito said no Ventura parents would be forced to buy uniforms even if their children attend schools that adopts them as a general policy. He said transfers to a school without uniforms could be arranged.

For now, school dress policies rely on the state education code, which under a 1993 amendment allows the banning of gang apparel but does not specifically mention uniforms.

Ventura’s interest in student uniforms, Spirito said, is part of the district’s response to last fall’s school voucher ballot initiative. It threatened to shift state money to private schools if parents decided to leave the public system.

“What we heard then was, ‘We’ve lost confidence in you. We have no power. We have no voice,’ ” Spirito said.

Offering to open up the system to more basic schools helps answer that complaint, he said. And most of the parents interviewed by The Times said they would like to take Spirito up on his offer.

Most parents said they were not much concerned about gang dress in their schools. But some backed uniforms in elementary schools as necessary if strict dress policies are to be imposed where they are really needed--at the middle and high schools.

Many parents said uniforms are a partial response to unwanted societal influences over their children.

And they said uniforms would help eliminate snobbishness about clothes among rich and poor students, while curbing arguments between parents and children over expensive clothes and what to wear to school.

“Kids are truly mean to each other, and uniforms would free them from worrying about what they’re wearing,” said Karen Dice, whose daughter attends Will Rogers School. “It’s a chance for the kids to be equal.” Irene Bachmann said her son, a kindergartner at Elmhurst School, already has acquired a consumer’s attitude about dress.

“He already knows how to pick out a $180 Bulls’ jacket,” she said. “He likes Air Jordan sneakers. He knows the difference from K mart sneakers. . . . It’s out of control, and the uniforms would help.”

Other parents said uniforms would help create a disciplined atmosphere at school.

“These kids in school are getting horrible, the way they behave, the disrespect,” said Wendy Christy, a parent with children at both Oak View and Arnaz elementary schools. “The boys are wearing those real baggy shorts that hang down to their butts with their boxers showing.”

Several parents who attended parochial school themselves said they appreciated having uniforms.

“It made me feel proud and important,” said Rosa de la Rosa, a parent at Saticoy School. “It showed that I belonged, that I was in school.”

Opponents of school uniforms focused primarily on issues of conformity, individuality, creativity and choice--positions similar to that taken by the American Civil Liberties Union in opposing the pending school uniform bill in Sacramento.

“I like my kids to be able to express their individuality and wear what they want to wear,” said Lea Nussman, a parent of a fifth-grader at Juanamaria and a seventh-grader at Cabrillo Middle School. “They have two really nice Raiders’ jackets, and they’ve chosen not to wear them anymore.”

Susan Henkel, a parent and teaching assistant at Mound School, said requiring uniforms would run counter to parents’ efforts to teach children to be responsible.

“We’re trying to teach our children to be individual and to think for themselves,” Henkel said. “I think with the right guidance by parents and teachers, children will make the right choices.”

Many parents said uniforms address a safety problem that generally does not exist in Ventura’s elementary schools.

And a number of parents, especially poorer ones, said they were concerned that school uniforms would cost far more than the clothes their children now wear--some purchased from thrift stores or hand-me-downs from older siblings.

Even some affluent parents saw the uniforms as an added cost, since their children would still want nice casual clothes for non-school activities.

In interviews, students tended to agree with their parents--and several said they would not object to uniforms so long as they were not ugly.

“I wouldn’t have to think about what to wear every day. It would make my life a little easier,” said Mike Dobson, 9, of Loma Vista School.

And Sara Hummer, a Pierpont fifth-grader, said, “Uniforms are better, because nobody can make fun of the way you dress. But some people might not like dresses. Some people--like me--just aren’t dress persons.”

Sara’s friend Lacey Sikes said a uniform would be OK if the color was right. And another, Raichel Carbon, added: “We could wear overalls.” They all agreed that was a good idea.

But Elizabeth Aguillar, a third-grader at E. P. Foster School, said she likes to wear her own style of clothes. “I don’t like wearing the same clothes as my friends,” she said.

And Will Rogers School’s Tiffany Tyburski, 10, said, “I’d feel embarrassed in case a cute boy comes by.”

Some parents said their children would rebel against uniforms.

“I think it would be nice,” said Liz Gourley, mother of two Poinsettia School students. “But my kids would hate it.”

Views on Uniforms Vary

Seeking response to the Ventura Unified School District’s move toward requiring student uniforms at some schools, The Times gathered the opinions of 102 parents--at least five from each of the 17 elementary schools.

Fifty-six parents favored uniforms, 44 opposed them and two were neutral.

Most parents were interviewed last week as they dropped off their children at school or picked them up. This is a sampler of what they had to say.

WESTERN VENTURA

E. P. FOSTER: Six parents, 3-3.

“These little kids have too much freedom. They need more structure in their lives. Elementary school might be a good place to start,” said Eleanor Arellanes, mother of a kindergartner.

But Sue Larimore said that her two children would hate the uniforms. “They like to wear what they want to wear, and I think I’d go along with them.”

SHERIDAN WAY: Five parents, 3 oppose.

“I think it stinks. I think it will place an undue economic hardship on parents and take away kids’ individual rights,” said James Pike, father of a first-grade boy. “I think part of growing up is deciding what clothes you’ll wear to school.”

But Doreen Kennedy, whose son is in the second grade, said, “It would bring all the children together of all economic levels. . . . Nobody would feel like, ‘I have this great outfit on and you have on a set of rags.’ ”

ARNAZ: Five parents, 3 oppose.

“I don’t think it would be such a bad idea,” said Lynn Muise, who has a daughter in second grade and a son in kindergarten. “That way the kids (who) can’t afford the nicer, brand-name clothes won’t be singled out.”

But Jay Paddock, mother of a kindergarten girl, said, “Who’s going to pay for it? And I just don’t see any reason for it. Where we live is completely different than Ventura. We’re out in the country.”

OAK VIEW: Five parents, 4 support.

“It’s got to start somewhere,” said school librarian Debi Carroll, whose two daughters attend the school. “Parents aren’t making sure their kids dress properly when they walk out that door.”

Jane Landberg, mother of two at Oak View, said, “It might be a good idea to have (uniforms) in the upper grades. And I think in order to do that, you’d need to start it in elementary school to get them used to it--where it’s not such a shock.”

CENTRAL VENTURA

WILL ROGERS: Ten parents, 6 support.

“They’ve got to have their $60 jeans and their $70 tennis shoes, when there are kids who can’t afford that,” said Tami Ulizio, whose children are in third and sixth grades.

But Casey Stafford, whose daughter attends Will Rogers, said, “I would support it if they could show it stops violence and gang activity, but I don’t see that as a problem at this level.”

PIERPONT: Ten parents; 5 in favor, 1 neutral.

“I love it,” said Gina Rylander, mother of four. “It would cut down on my height-of-fashion daughter. She’s 8.”

Suzie Hummer, mother of a fifth-grader, said, “I’d be all for it, but I don’t think they could approve it. There are too many parents who don’t want their kids’ rights violated.”

LINCOLN: Five parents, 3 opposed.

“I think you have little girls who are going to want to wear their ballerina clothes and little boys who want to wear their Dodger shirts,” said Neel DeBone, who has two sons at Lincoln. “They’re a little young to impose sanctions of that sort. You have to let them be kids at some point.”

But Margaret Martinez, whose sons are 10 and 5, said uniforms would “make the focus more on how they’re doing in school, rather than how they’re looking at school.”

LOMA VISTA:

Five parents, 3 support.

Pat Haycox, who has two children at Loma Vista, said she wore uniforms through the 12th grade. “When I first graduated, I wasn’t so hot on them, but now, looking back, I think they solved a lot of problems. What clothes your kids are wearing shouldn’t be one of the things we have to worry about.”

But Verlie Howser, mother of two, said, “I don’t think that’s the answer. If safety is the issue, then let’s deal with the issues of safety.”

BLANCHE REYNOLDS: Five parents, 3 support.

“I think it takes away from a kid’s creativity,” said Matt Hickle, who has a daughter, 7, and a son, 9. “If you have a uniform, they don’t have the ability to express themselves.”

“I strongly believe in uniforms,” said Maria Faulkner, whose two grandchildren attend Blanche Reynolds. “If they’re poor, they won’t feel bad, so everybody’s equal.”

ELMHURST: Five parents, 4 support.

“If it’s cheaper than buying jeans and tennis shoes for the kids, why not?” said Santos Rodrigues, father of two young students.

Toby Petty, whose 6-year-old daughter attends Elmhurst, said, “I think it would make our mornings easier. Now I am always arguing with my daughter over what she will wear.”

EAST VENTURA

JUNIPERO SERRA: Six parents; 4 opposed, 1 neutral.

“Everybody looking alike?” asked Rodney Campolini, father of two girls, 10 and 6. “That’s not fun when you are a kid.”

Lena Hill, mother of a 6-year-old boy, said uniforms would be boring. “I don’t like the idea of everyone dressing the same. I like to pick my son’s clothing in the morning.”

POINSETTIA: Nine parents, 7 support.

“I think making a fashion statement these days can be dangerous,” said Kim Saracini, mother of four students, including one at Poinsettia and three at Anacapa Middle School.

Angel Meza, whose son is a Poinsettia first-grader, said, “I think it would take away their First Amendment right. I think it’s wrong. How you dress is who you are.”

JUANAMARIA: Five parents, 4 opposed.

“I used to have to wear them when I was little, and I hate them,” said Suzette Boone, mother of a fifth-grade girl.

And Sherry Weeks, mother of first- and second-grade girls, added: “I don’t like being told by someone else what to wear. My daughter wouldn’t like it.”

MOUND: Five parents, 3 support.

“I think it takes away from the competitive clothing aspect, the kids’ one-upmanship that ‘I’ve got to have this because everyone else has it,’ ” said Mary Rivas, who has two sons at Mound.

But Elaina Fletcher said uniforms are simply not needed at Mound. “The children are very well-behaved. I don’t see a discipline problem at Mound.”

MONTALVO: Five parents, 3 support.

“I don’t like kids coming in looking like little gangbangers. I don’t allow my sons to dress that way, but I see it, even at the elementary level,” said Cathy Williams, who has two young sons.

Liza Shively, who has a kindergartner, said memories of her dad’s military career leave her with a sour taste on uniforms and discipline: “I just don’t like it when they start handing down all these rules.”

PORTOLA: Six parents, 3-3.

“I have a 10-year-old boy who wears only jeans and a T-shirt.” said Shell Mercurio, parent of a fourth-grader. I think that’s part of the freedom of being a child.” But Anna Muir, who has three elementary-age students, said, “I think it would make things a lot easier on working moms. I have three girls and every morning I have to figure out what they’re going to wear.”

SATICOY: Five parents, 4 support.

“I don’t feel like schools are completely safe anymore, and I don’t think uniforms are going to solve the problem,” said Fred Pickering, father of first- and second-grade daughters. “But I do think they would add a level of discipline and restriction that could be of some help.”

But Corrine Leonardo, whose daughter is in third grade, said, “The school seems safe to me. They don’t let them wear baseball caps. I think that’s strict enough.”

Times staff writers Sara Catania, Christina Lima, Joanna M. Miller, Constance Sommer and Tracy Wilson and correspondents Maia Davis, Julie Fields, Matthew Mosk, Jeff McDonald, J. E. Mitchell and Kay Saillant contributed to this report.