Local Elections : Prop. 187 Fuels Strong Emotions : Immigration: An informal poll of residents from Simi Valley to Oxnard shows the high level of intensity felt on both sides of the issue.

Retired construction worker Felipe Gutierrez of Oxnard is proud that he never took a thing from anyone. But he thinks too many other people have and Proposition 187 might put a stop to that.

“I’m one of those people who never believed in welfare,” said Gutierrez, 82. “No one ever gave me nothing.”

Ventura accountant Frank Nagle echoes that view. And he is even more determined to vote yes on Proposition 187 Tuesday.

“You can’t get that ballot into my hand fast enough,” he said.

But while Gutierrez and Nagle will be voting in favor of the initiative next week, Suzanne Lawrence will be voting against the controversial measure. She has too many questions about it, she said.

“How much paper would we have to carry to prove we are a citizen?” Lawrence asked. “And who decides who will be asked for identification?”

Four days before California voters decide whether to deny most public services to illegal immigrants, Ventura County residents are sharply divided on the so-called Save Our State initiative.

An informal poll of more than 60 residents from Simi Valley to Oxnard by Times reporters Thursday showed the strong emotions on both sides of the issue. Half of those interviewed said they plan to vote in favor of Proposition 187, while only one-quarter said they plan to vote against it.

The survey contained no scientific value--just one more measure of the divisions among voters over the ballot proposition. A few said they have not yet made up their minds. One in six said it was a private matter.

Simi Valley resident Thomas Meledy said he has changed his mind several times on the issue. But now, the retired engineer says he will vote no.

“This is not the way to solve the problem. Teachers and doctors are not going to turn people in, and we’ll end up right back where we started,” said Meledy, 74. “We need to solve this problem at the border.”

Utility firm supervisor Mark Stuckey couldn’t disagree more. From the garage of his upscale Oxnard home, he said the measure is a good start at cleaning up California’s troubled economy.

“If you take away the freebies and the cake, sooner or later they’ll stop coming,” said Stuckey, rebuilding his Harley-Davidson motorcycle Thursday afternoon.

“I’ve been here 14 years and I’ve seen the population in Oxnard double,” Stuckey added. “A majority of that is people of Hispanic origin, and a lot of them are probably illegal.”

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In central Oxnard, housewife Debbie Carrillo said Proposition 187 is a bad idea, in part because no one else wants the jobs that illegal immigrants have.

“You’re not going to see white people or black people out in the field picking crops,” the 28-year-old Oxnard native said.

As for the children of illegal immigrants being denied a public education, Carrillo said, “They may get kicked out of school, but they won’t leave.”

Suzanne Guggenheim, 50, a Newbury Park real estate broker who flies an American flag from her stucco home, said she plans to vote yes.

“We need to pass it in California badly,” said Guggenheim, whose front lawn is strewn with campaign flyers. “We are in a very difficult economic situation in California, partly because of welfare.”

Johann Garcia, a golf resort supervisor from Oxnard, said he sees both good and bad qualities in the measure.

“It’s hard for me to choose, but I’m leaning towards no,” he said, looking up from a vintage white Cadillac he was washing in his Oxnard yard. “I wouldn’t be surprised if some kind of riot breaks out if it passes, because everyone’s so hyped up about it.”

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But Marilyn Pearson, a resident of Simi Valley’s Wood Ranch, said she blames illegal immigrants for taking jobs from Americans and using up scarce government services. She will vote yes, she said.

“My son was out of work for eight months, and his wife was having a baby,” Pearson said. “Who was there to help them? Nobody.”

Lillian Fair of Ventura already voted by absentee ballot against the measure. There are better ways to discourage illegal immigration, she said.

“We should change the laws so that children who are born to illegal immigrants here do not automatically become citizens,” the fourth-generation California native said.

Like Garcia, Fair said she fears some demonstrations may turn ugly if the measure passes. “That seems to be the way things are today,” said Fair, 86. “If someone doesn’t like something, they throw rocks at windows or burn buildings.”

On the other side of the issue, Simi Valley supermarket clerk Cherie Roye, 37, said she is tired of dealing with illegal immigrants who pay for groceries with food stamps and other government handouts.

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“I think they’re abusing the welfare system,” she said. “They can’t speak English, they can’t even make proper change.”

But Oxnard packinghouse worker Rosie Campos said denying an education to children would create more problems than it would solve.

“There’s a lot of gangs and drugs going around,” Campos said. “If they can’t get an education, it’s going to be worse.”

Simi Valley resident Sharrie Shannon said she also will vote against the initiative.

“I don’t think victimizing children for what their parents did is going to help,” said Shannon, a 33-year-old service assistant at the Simi Valley Police Department. “That’s like punishing the sons for the sins of their fathers. These children are born in this country.”

But Stan Caron, a 58-year-old construction worker who lives above Ventura College, doesn’t see it that way.

“I kind of feel sorry for the kids, but you’ve got to start somewhere,” said Caron, who said he would support the measure.

He is especially angry with the students who have swarmed into the streets of Oxnard and Camarillo to demonstrate against the initiative, disagreeing that they have any right to public services if they live in California illegally.

“That’s easy for them to say,” he said. “They’re not paying the taxes.”

The anti-187 demonstrations also bothered Joe Davis, a war veteran who lives in Newbury Park. But for a different reason.

“I don’t think they should be waving the Mexican flag,” Davis said. “I fought for the United States flag during World War II.”

Nonetheless, he added, he plans to vote no on the measure.

“We need the illegals for crops, farming, those kinds of jobs,” he said. “I wouldn’t do the kind of work they do and a lot of other people wouldn’t do it either.”

Times staff writers Mack Reed, Sara Catania and Mary F. Pols and correspondent Kay Saillant contributed to this report.