Counselor Says Education After High School Can Be Key to Opening Doors to a Better Life

Audrey Smith has been a college counselor at Marshall High School since 1981. Her school was among those bucking a trend in Los Angeles County toward declining college enrollments. A recent state report indicated that nearly 70% of Marshall’s 600 graduating seniors went to college in 1994--up almost 6% in two years--even though one-third of the school’s 3,700 students are not native English speakers, one-quarter come from families on welfare, and the average scores for those who take college entrance tests are below those required by most competitive four-year colleges and universities. Nonetheless, Smith prods every senior to have a post-graduation plan that includes education--either college or vocational training.

Smith spoke with Times education writer Amy Pyle, offering advice for high school students, recent graduates and their parents.

Q:

In a time when California state university and college enrollment is dropping among Los Angeles County graduates, Marshall has experienced an increase. What’s the secret to your success?

A:

We saturate students with information, for one thing. We have a peer college counseling program, where seniors are trained by me on SAT (Scholastic Aptitude Test) applications and other things. . . . Then they summon the kids in, do an initial interview with them and we put it all on the computer. If they mention a community college, Trade Tech for instance, we bring them back in when we have that representative on campus. I also go to their English classes and I talk to them. I have a monthly update I send out to them on what’s happening and a scholarship bulletin.

Q:

How much can a student count on his or her high school counselor to help in the college application process? What can or should they do on their own?

A:

They can get all the assistance they need, but they have to have the initiative. We have 700 students in the senior class and I’m the only college counselor. That’s one reason I have the peer college counselors. They can get the help if they want it, but they can’t depend on somebody saying, “You didn’t do this, you didn’t do that.” If they have questions, they have to come and ask. I give them as much information as I can in bulletins, but they have to read the bulletins.

Q:

How early do students need to begin thinking seriously about college?

A:

It’s important to start early because they’re deciding whether to take a foreign language [and other required courses] and, if they decide not to, they’re closing a door to the universities. We talk to the ninth-graders. We have a class for them called educational and career planning that’s required in Los Angeles Unified.

Financial aid is the other reason to start early. They should know in kindergarten that no matter what their parents’ financial situation is, they can go to college. The rumor is, they have to work a couple years first, and that’s not a good idea.

Q:

What’s the best way for them to start researching their options? Where should they look? Who should they talk to? What should they ask?

A:

I got a computer software program called College View into every school computer I could. It’s interactive multimedia and then when you’ve narrowed down the choices, you can take a tour of the campus. They can also go to their local library and there are all kinds of references there.

They should also be visiting college campuses, as a family. In Los Angeles we are so fortunate to be so close to so many top colleges and universities, and community colleges are right in everybody’s neighborhoods.

They have to decide what it is that they want in a college, what it is they’re looking for, what would make them feel comfortable. That’s why visiting is so important. They should not be looking toward what they want to do the rest of their lives, because they will change their minds; they should be looking for where they feel comfortable. It might be ethnic makeup, it might be socioeconomic levels. . . .

I try to get people from the colleges to come here as much as possible. At Marshall, we don’t organize groups to visit colleges because we don’t have any funds for school buses. The only place we go is Cal State L.A. because they send a bus for us, and Mount St. Marys. Glendale Community College is wonderful. They do the math and English testing they require here and they send somebody once a week to talk to the kids. Usually more than 100 seniors go there.

Q:

When do they need to start narrowing down their selection group?

A:

Before the beginning of their senior year, because they have to start applying then. . . . It’s a lot of work and it’s a lot of money if they haven’t narrowed [their choices] down. You have to pay to apply, a nonrefundable application fee. There are 22 California State University campuses and you have to fill out a separate application for each one.

Q:

What about the SAT exams? Should everyone take them?

A:

Yes, I tell them to. A lot take the ACT (American College Test) too. It’s another option and seems to be preferred by people whose language is not initially English. The verbal is only a quarter of the test. When I talk about the SAT vs. the ACT, I talk about them as either/or, that they should just take what they feel comfortable with.

Q:

What’s the greatest concern of students about college? Of their parents?

A:

The cost is overwhelmingly the greatest concern, whether they’re going to really be able to afford it, and secondly whether they’re going to be able to compete academically.

For parents, the concern is money, and in many ways. Sometimes they’re worried about whether they’ll be able to help their children go to college. In other cases they want them working and contributing to the family. But I tell them if they’re really low-income, they may be better off if the student is in college and living at home, because they can get financial aid that includes living expenses.

Q:

What options are there for those who may not be college-bound? What do you advise them to do?

A:

I encourage them to go to college anyway, to go to Los Angeles City College or L.A. Trade Tech or Glendale Community College because the vocational programs there are fantastic and they are $13 a unit. There are a lot of vocational schools, too, but they can cost a fortune.

They’ve got to go on to some kind of training after high school. I tell them about the time my Mercedes broke down and I paid a mechanic $240 to come out. He showed up in a Mercedes station wagon and worked for five minutes. I ask them, “How would you like to have that job?”

They don’t have to be studying more English and history and math; just find out where their passion is. I also tell them the job they can get right out of school won’t be there in about five years. They always mention McDonald’s. I tell them what McDonald’s will look like in few years, with a bunch of robots and three employees: a manager, a computer manager and someone to clean up the catsup.

Q:

What does it cost to go to college?

A:

Community colleges cost about $1,000 a year, for everything. Cal State is about $2,000 a year, if you live at home. UC is $5,000 a year living at home and commuting, on campus is about $12,000. Private schools are upward of $30,000, living on campus, the whole bit.

Q:

Is financial aid on the decline?

A:

I don’t think it’s changed an awful lot. It’s definitely more self-help. There’s much more need to take out loans than when I started because it costs so much more, even with the UCs and Cal State. Community colleges used to be free.

Q:

What are some creative ways of dealing with the financial burden of college, for students, parents and counselors?

A:

Students shouldn’t have a savings account in their own name. That’s a mistake that parents make or grandparents think they’ll put money in the kids’ names for college. But if it’s not enough to send them to college, it may be enough to disqualify them for financial aid because 100% of it is considered available to the student. It’s better if it’s in the parents’ account, because they have other financial responsibilities.

Probably 99% of the money kids are going to get for going to college comes from one form, the Free Application for Federal Student Aid or the FAFSA. They fill that out and they’re applying for all of it, the loans, the work-study and the grants. The federal government sends it to California, for CalGrants.

I tell parents to avoid loans as much as they can. But for lower-income parents, if they have to take a loan, it is low-interest and subsidized by the federal government. Students don’t have to pay anything on it for six months after they graduate and they have 10 years to pay it back.

The middle class does not get as much help as they used to. What the Clinton administration did for the middle class is they created unsubsidized loans, on which the interest starts accruing right away. But students still don’t have to start paying it back until after graduation. Then there’s another parent loan on which parents have to start paying right away. . . . If they own a home, they might be better off with a home equity loan.

Q:

High school counselors often say that the residency requirement for state university and college tuition breaks is a particular obstacle for undocumented students. Have you experienced that at Marshall and how do you handle it? What do you tell those students?

A:

Yes we have. Pretty much now the door is closed on undocumented students unless they have the money to pay. It costs $13 a unit at community colleges for people with residency and 10 times that, $130, if they don’t have residency, whether they’re undocumented or come from Utah. The other thing is they can’t get financial aid.

I have a list of agencies that assist them in getting their permanent residency papers and that’s what we try to do with them.

Q:

What’s the best advice you give students?

A:

No matter what is going on in their lives, no matter what their thoughts of the future are, no matter what they think their life is going to be, they should get involved in some kind of post-secondary education right after they leave [high school]. They should not take time to find themselves, take a year off to travel around the world. They think they’ll be in a better financial situation if they work a few years, but they need a car to go to work, then they end up working to support the car. It’s just a bottomless pit. It will never be easier for them than now.