Talking About Life, Films and Fame

The day before he was to receive the American Film Institute’s 25th Life Achievement Award, Martin Scorsese arrived at the Beverly Hilton for a run-through of the big night.

Looking fit and dapper in a dark navy jacket and gray slacks, Scorsese headed for a second-floor suite. There, he ruminated about the vicissitudes of his career, his approach to movie-making and the flap that erupted between China and Disney over his latest film, “Kundun”--the story of Tibet’s exiled spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama.

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Question: Was respect a long time in coming?

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Answer: A lot of the early critical acclaim was less for me as a director than for the actors. That was true in “Taxi Driver,” “Mean Streets,” “Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore.” The first recognition I got from the Academy [of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences] was 1980’s “Raging Bull”--for which I was nominated but didn’t win. I didn’t get the [Directors Guild of America] award either. That’s when I told myself to be happy making movies and not to complain. Oscar time is over for me. The films I could have been cited for have been done. “Raging Bull,” “Taxi Driver,” “Casino,” were very draining--and I don’t know what’s ahead.

Q: Does the AFI tribute compensate, in a way?

A: It’s very surreal. The first time I was on this stage was 32 years ago. The Screen Producers Guild was giving a lifetime achievement award to Alfred Hitchcock and I got the prize for best student film. Up there on the dais with me were Jack Benny, Cary Grant, Eva Marie Saint, Jean Seberg, Jimmy Stewart, Sam Goldwyn, David Selznick, Jack Warner. When Elke Sommer handed me this little award, I didn’t know what to do. Cary Grant told me to kiss her--so I did and sat down.

Q: Your pictures certainly haven’t corresponded to the Hollywood mold.

A: The subject matter and characters I deal with aren’t usually the most pleasant. But, amazingly, I’ve always had a studio willing to work with me. Part of it was that I often had De Niro in the lead. He has a certain stature--plus the compassion to play characters who are flawed and dangerous and still find the humanity in them. People apparently regarded us as an exciting combination.

Q: You’ve been called one of the most important directors on the American scene. . . .

A: It’s nice to read that, but I’ve learned not to take it too seriously. You can’t be arrogant because it all falls apart in that moment on the set when you can’t figure out what to do. There are a lot of people making great movies: Steven Spielberg, Francis Coppola, Bernardo Bertolucci, David Cronenberg, Woody Allen, Robert Altman, Spike Lee, Charles Burnett, Oliver Stone--and [there’s the] Chinese cinema . . . if it’s allowed to continue.

Q: Were you caught in the middle when China threatened to cut off business with Disney for distributing “Kundun”?

A: Since I was shooting in Morocco, I didn’t hear about it until I turned on the British financial news. I was sipping coffee and eating fromage blanc--delicious . . . I thought it was yogurt. People started faxing stories to us and, two days later, Disney issued a statement.

Q: A very guarded one, as I recall--about fulfilling its obligations rather than an affirmation of principle.

A: I never expected them to do any flag-waving. I’m just glad they stuck by the picture and that we felt no repercussions. At least, it generated discussion about our values as a society. Do we want to make more money or stand for human rights? Universal turned the project down because of the global implications. Warner Bros. was willing to go, but didn’t want to put up $28 million. Still, if Disney decided to back out, I’m sure we’d find a distributor.

Q: You’re meeting with Disney while you’re in town. Will you be discussing the thrust of the movie?

A: I can’t lighten up because the nature of the material dictates the movie. It’s about a little boy who, at the age of 18, makes a decision to keep his country and his religion alive--nonviolently. America has to be on the side of the underdog, and corporations need to know that. Though I’m not a crusader, we have to keep them on a straight path. Otherwise an artist won’t be able to say anything for fear of stepping on so many toes.

Q: I’m not the first to suggest that your early religious zeal may have been transferred to the cinema. Is the screen a pulpit, of sorts?

A: My movies are little parables about how to live one’s life. Not negative but positive. Not violence but love. That theme of Christian loving was there in “Mean Streets,” “Raging Bull” and in “Taxi Driver,” too--though that was more [screenwriter] Paul Schrader’s. He’s more intellectual than I. . . . He knows what the word “existential” means.

Q: You once considered giving up movie-making and going into teaching.

A: Brian De Palma and I were having dinner at Hugo’s in 1983. My first round with “Last Temptation of Christ” had just been canceled and his “Scarface” had just been screened the night before it opened. He didn’t like the reaction. We were trying to figure out what to do if the thing we loved most was taken away. I wasn’t really going to walk--I just wanted to rethink everything. I moved back to New York and made the $5.5-million “After Hours,” which I shot in 40 days.

Q: What turned things around?

A: The release of “GoodFellas” in 1990--plus having the critics name “Raging Bull” the best picture of the 1980s. Since I’d had trouble setting up films I wanted to make during that decade, it was a relief people remembered. Now it’s a matter of continuing to find things I want to say. A real director can take material with which he may not have a real connection and still do a great job. I don’t know if I can do that. What would I do with a western?

Q: So we can expect more films on the Italian-American-Catholic experience?

A: I want to make a film about Italian immigrants based on my mother and father’s life but I can’t do it now since there’s too much “Casino” and “GoodFellas” in my mind. This has the same style as those movies--voice-over narration, quick pacing. John Guare has written a script about George Gershwin--the story of two brothers, which is my connection. That’s probably what I’ll do next.