‘Sensible Gun Safety Measures Are Warranted’

LEHRER: What do you think the United States should do right now to resolve that conflict [in the Middle East]?

GORE: The first priority has to be on ending the violence, dampening down the tensions that have risen there. We need to call upon Syria to release the three Israeli soldiers who have been captured. We need to insist that [Palestinian Authority President Yasser] Arafat send out instructions to halt some of the provocative acts of violence that have been going on.

I think that we also have to keep a weather eye toward Saddam Hussein, because he’s taking advantage of this situation to once again make threats, and he needs to understand that he’s not only dealing with Israel, he, he is dealing, he’s dealing with us, if he, if he is making the kind of threats that he’s talking about there. . . .

But one thing I would say where diplomacy is concerned. Israel should, should feel absolutely secure about one thing: Our bonds with Israel are larger than agreements or disagreements on some details of diplomatic initiatives. They are historic, they are strong, and they are enduring. And our ability to serve as an honest broker is a, is something that we need to shepherd.

BUSH: Well, I think during the campaign, particularly now, during this difficult period, we ought to be speaking with one voice. And I appreciate the way the administration has worked hard to calm the tensions. Like the vice president, I call on Chairman Arafat to have his people pull back, to make the peace.

I think credibility is going to be very important in the future in the Middle East. I want everybody to know, should I be the president, Israel’s going to be our friend, I’m going to stand by Israel; secondly, that I think it’s important to reach out to moderate Arab nations, like Jordan and Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. . . .

But it’s important to have credibility, and credibility is formed by being strong with your friends and resolute in your determination. It’s one of the reasons why I think it’s important for this nation to develop an anti-ballistic missile system that we can share with our allies in the Middle East, if need be, to keep the peace, to be able to say to the Saddam Husseins of the world, or the Iranians, “Don’t dare threaten our friends.” It’s also important to keep a, strong ties in the Middle East with--credible ties, because of the energy crisis we’re now in. After all, a lot of the energy is produced from the Middle East. . . .

LEHRER: So you don’t believe, Vice President Gore, that we should take sides in this. . . ?

GORE: Well, we stand with--we stand with Israel, but we have maintained the ability to serve as an honest broker. And one of the reasons that’s important is that Israel cannot have direct dialogue with some of the people on the other side of conflicts, especially during times of tension, unless that dialogue comes through us. And if we throw away that ability to serve as an honest broker, then we have thrown, we will have thrown away a strategic asset that’s important not only to us, but also to Israel.

LEHRER: Do you agree with that, governor?

BUSH: I do. I do think this, though: I think that when it comes to timetables, it can’t be a United States timetable as to how, as to how discussions take place. It’s got to be a timetable that all parties can agree to, you know, like the Palestinians and the Israelis.

Secondly, any lasting peace is going to have to be a peace that’s good for both sides and, therefore, the term “honest broker” makes sense. This current administration has worked hard to keep the parties at the table. I will try to do the same thing, but it won’t be on my timetable, it will be on the timetable that people are comfortable with in the Middle East.

Intervention

LEHRER: . . . In the last 20 years, there have been eight major actions involving the introduction of U.S. ground, air or naval forces. Let me name them: Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, the Persian Gulf, Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti, Kosovo. If you had been president, are any of those interventions--would any of those interventions not have happened?

LEHRER: . . . Lebanon?

GORE: I thought that was a mistake.

LEHRER: Grenada?

GORE: I supported that.

LEHRER: Panama?

GORE: I supported that one.

LEHRER: Persian Gulf?

GORE: Yes, I voted for it, supported it.

LEHRER: Somalia?

GORE: . . . No, I think that that was ill-considered. I did support it at the time. It was in the previous administration, in the Bush-Quayle administration. And I think in retrospect, the lessons there are ones that we, that we should take very, very seriously.

LEHRER: Bosnia?

GORE: Oh, yes.

LEHRER: Haiti?

GORE: Yes.

LEHRER: And then Kosovo.

GORE: Yes.

Lehrer then turned to Bush, who asked to preface his answers with a statement.

BUSH: Somalia. Started off as a humanitarian mission and then changed into a nation-building mission, and that’s where the mission went wrong. The mission was changed and, as a result, our nation paid a price. And so I don’t think our troops ought to be used for what’s called nation-building. I think our troops ought to be used to fight and win war. . . . But in this case, it was a nation-building exercise. And the same with Haiti, I wouldn’t have supported, either.

LEHRER: What about Lebanon?

BUSH: Yes.

LEHRER: Grenada?

BUSH: Yes.

LEHRER: Panama?

BUSH: Yes.

LEHRER: Obviously the Persian . . .

BUSH: Some of them I’ve got a conflict of interest on--(laughs)--if you know what I mean.

LEHRER: I do. I do. (Laughter.) Your--there’s the Persian Gulf, obviously.

BUSH: Yeah. (Laughs.)

LEHRER: And Bosnia.

BUSH: Yeah.

LEHRER: . . . Six hundred thousand people died in Rwanda in 1994. There was no U.S. intervention. There was no intervention from the outside world. Was that a mistake not to intervene?

BUSH: I think the administration did the right thing in that case. I do. It was a horrible situation.

GORE: . . . We did actually send troops into Rwanda to help with the humanitarian relief measures. My wife, Tipper, who’s here, actually went on a military plane with [former Joints Chiefs of Staff Chairman] Gen. [John M.] Shalikashvili on one of those flights. But I think, in retrospect, we were too late getting in there. We could have saved more lives if we had acted earlier.

But I do not think that it was an example of a conflict where we should have put our troops in to try to separate the parties. . . .

LEHRER: So what would you say, governor, to somebody who would say: “Hey, wait a minute. Why not Africa? . . . why the Middle East? Why the Balkans, but not Africa, when 600,000 people’s lives are at risk?”

BUSH: Well, I understand. And Africa’s important. And we’ve got to do a lot of work in Africa to promote democracy and trade. And there’s some--the vice president mentioned Nigeria. It’s a fledgling democracy. We’ve got to work with Nigeria. It’s an important continent.

But there’s got to be priorities, and the Middle East is a priority for a lot of reasons, as is Europe and the Far East and our own hemisphere. And those are my four top priorities should I be the president. . . . But we can’t be all things to all people in the world, Jim. . . . I am worried about overcommitting our military around the world. I want to be judicious in its use. You mentioned Haiti. I wouldn’t have sent troops to Haiti. I didn’t think it was a mission worthwhile. It was a nation-building mission, and it was not very successful. It cost us billions--a couple billions of dollars, and I’m not so sure democracy’s any better off in Haiti than it was before.

LEHRER: Vice President Gore, do you agree with the governor’s views on nation-building . . . ?

GORE: I don’t think we agree on that. I would certainly also be judicious in evaluating any potential use of American troops overseas. I think we have to be very reticent about that.

But look, Jim, the world is changing so rapidly, the way I see it, the world’s getting much closer together. Like it or not, we are now, the United States is now the natural leader of the world.

All these other countries are looking to us.

Now just because we cannot be involved everywhere, and shouldn’t be, doesn’t mean that we should shy away from going in anywhere.

Racial Profiling

LEHRER: . . . Vice President Gore, would you support or sign, as president, a federal law banning racial profiling by police and other authorities at all levels of government?

GORE: Yes, I would. The only thing an executive order can accomplish is to ban it in federal law enforcement agencies. But I would also support a law in the Congress that would have the effect of doing the same thing.

I just, I think that racial profiling is a serious problem. I remember when the stories first came out about the stops in New Jersey by the highway patrol there--and I know it’s been going on a long time. In some ways, this is just a new label for something that’s been going on for years.

But I have to confess that it was the first time that I really focused on it in a new way. And I was, I was surprised at the extent of it.

And I think we’ve now got so many examples around the country that we really have to find ways to end this. Imagine what it, what it is like for someone to be singled out unfairly, unjustly, and feel the unfair force of law simply because of race or ethnicity. Now, that runs counter to what the United States of America is all about at our core. And it’s not an easy problem to solve, but I, if I am entrusted with the presidency, it will be the first civil rights act of the 21st century.

BUSH: Yeah, I can’t imagine what it would be like to be singled out because of race, and stopped and harassed. It’s just flat wrong, and that’s not what America is all about, and so we ought to do everything we can to end racial profiling.

One of my concerns, though, is I don’t want to federalize the local police forces. I want to, you know, obviously in the egregious cases we need to enforce civil rights law, but we need to make sure that internal affairs divisions at the local level do their job and be given a chance to do their job. I believe in local control of governments. And, obviously, if they don’t, there needs to be a consequence at the federal level. . . .

LEHRER: And that could be a federal law?

BUSH: Yeah.

LEHRER: And you would agree?

GORE: I would agree. And I also agree that most police officers, of course, are doing a good job and hate this practice also. . . .

And I think that racial profiling is part of a larger issue of how we deal with race in America. And as for singling people out because of race, you know, [murder victim] James Byrd was singled out because of his race, in Texas, and other Americans have been singled out because of their race or ethnicity. And that’s why I think that we can embody our values by passing a hate crimes law. I think these crimes are different. I think they’re different because they’re based on prejudice and hatred, which is, which gives rise to crimes that have not just a single victim, but they’re intended to stigmatize and dehumanize a whole group of people.

LEHRER: You have a different view of that.

BUSH: No, I don’t, really, on hate crimes laws. No, we’ve got one in Texas. And guess what? The three men who murdered James Byrd, guess what’s going to happen to them? They’re going to be put to death. A jury found them guilty. And I, it’s going to be hard to punish them any worse after they get put to death.

Race Relations

LEHRER: What--if you become president, governor, are there other areas, racial problem areas, that you would deal with as president, involving discrimination?

BUSH: . . . Let me tell you where the biggest discrimination comes--in public education when we just move children through the schools. . . .

It starts with making sure every child learns to read. [Kindergarten] through 2 diagnostic testing, so we know whether or not there’s a deficiency. Curriculum that works and phonics needs to be an integral part of our reading curriculum. Intensive reading laboratories, teacher retraining. I mean, there needs to be a wholesale effort against racial profiling, which is illiterate children.

. . . And so to make sure we end up getting rid of the basic structural prejudice is education. There’s nothing more prejudiced than not educating a child.

LEHRER: Vice President Gore, what would be on your racial discrimination elimination list as president?

GORE: Well, I think we need tough enforcement of the civil rights laws. I think we still need affirmative action. I would pass a hate crimes law, as I said. And I guess I had misunderstood the governor’s previous position. The Byrd family may have a misunderstanding of it in Texas also. But I’d like to shift, if I could, to the big issue of education.

LEHRER: Wait, hold on one second. What is the misunderstanding? Let’s clear this up.

GORE: Well, I had thought that there was a controversy at the end of the legislative session where the hate crimes law in Texas was--failed and that the Byrd family, among others, asked you to support it, governor, and it died in committee for lack of support. Am I wrong about that?

BUSH: You don’t realize we have a hate crimes statute? We do.

GORE: I’m talking about the one that was proposed to deal [with the Byrd killing].

BUSH: No--well what the vice president must not understand is we’ve got hate crimes bill in Texas. And secondly, the people that murdered Mr. Byrd got the ultimate punishment.

Guns

LEHRER: New subject, new question, Vice President Gore. How do you see the connection between controlling gun sales in this country and the incidence of death by accidental or intentional use of guns?

GORE: . . . First of all let me say that the governor and I agree on some things where this subject is concerned. I will not do anything to affect the rights of hunters or sportsmen. I think that homeowners have to be respected, and the right to have a gun if they wish to.

The problem I see is that there are too many guns getting into the hands of children and criminals and people who, for whatever reason--some kind of history of stalking or domestic abuse--really should not be able to get guns. I think these assault weapons are a problem. So I favor closing the gun show loophole. In fact, I cast the tie-breaking vote to close it, but then the majority in the House of Representatives went the other way. That’s still pending. If we could get agreement on that, maybe they could pass that in the final days of this Congress.

I think we ought to restore the three-day waiting period under the [gun-control] Brady law. I think we should toughen the enforcement of gun laws so that the ones that are already on the books can be enforced much more effectively. Some of the restrictions that have been placed by the Congress in the last couple years, I think--in the last few years, I think, have been unfortunate.

I think that we ought to make all schools gun free, have a gun-free zone around every school in this country.

I think that measures like these are important; child safety trigger locks on a mandatory basis, and others.

LEHRER: Governor?

BUSH: Well, it starts with enforcing the law, and we need to say loud and clear to somebody, if you’re going to carry a gun illegally, we’re going to arrest you. If you’re going to sell a gun illegally, you need to be arrested, and if you commit crime with a gun, there needs to be absolute certainty in the law.

And that means that the local law enforcement officials need help at the federal level, need programs like Project Exile, where the federal government intensifies arresting people who illegally use guns. And we haven’t done a very good job of that at the federal level recently, and I’m going to make it a priority.

Secondly, I don’t think we ought to be selling guns to people who shouldn’t have them. That’s why I support instant background checks at gun shows. One of the reasons we have an instant background check is so that we instantly know whether or not somebody should have a gun or not.

In Texas, I tried to do something innovatively, which is that, you know, there’s a lot of talk about, you know, trigger locks being on guns sold in the future. I support that. But I said, “Listen, if you want a trigger lock to make your gun safe, come to--come and get one for free.” And so we’re distributing in our state of Texas for free. I think we ought to raise the age at which a juvenile can carry a handgun from 18 to 21.

I disagree with the vice president on this issue. I don’t--he’s for registration of guns. I think the only people who are going to show up to register or get a license--I guess licensing, like a driver’s license with a gun--the only people who are going to show up are law-abiding citizens. The criminals are not going to show up and say, “Hey, give me my ID card.” It’s the law-abiding citizens who’ll do that. And I just, I don’t think that’s going to be an effective tool to make the, keep our society safe.

GORE: . . . Well, I’m not for registration. I am for licensing by states of new handgun purchases. . . . I think states should do that for new handguns, because too many criminals are getting guns. There was a recent investigation of the, of the number in Texas who got, who were given concealed weapons permits in spite of the fact that they had records, and The Los Angeles Times has spent a lot of ink going into that.

But I am not for doing anything that would affect hunters or sportsmen, rifles, shotguns, existing handguns. I do think that sensible gun safety measures are warranted now.

Look, this is the year, this is in the aftermath of Columbine and Paducah and all of the places around our country where the nation has been shocked by these weapons in the hands of the wrong people.

The woman who bought the guns for the two boys who did that killing at Columbine said that if she had had to give her name and fill out a form there, she would not have bought those guns. That conceivably could have prevented that tragedy.

LEHRER: Back to the question about the differences on gun control. What are they, Governor, from your point of view, between you and the vice president?

BUSH: Well, I’m not for photo licensing. But let me say something about Columbine. . . . Listen, we’ve got gun laws. He says we ought to have gun-free schools. Everybody believes that. I’m sure every state in the unions got them. You can’t carry a gun into a school. And there ought to be a consequence when you do carry a gun into a school.

But Columbine spoke to a larger issue, and it’s really a matter of culture. It’s a culture that somewhere along the line, we’ve begun to disrespect life, where a child can walk in and can have their heart turned dark as a result of being on the Internet, and walk in and decide to take somebody else’s life. So gun laws are important, no question about it.

But so is loving children and, you know, character education classes and faith-based programs being a part of after-school programs. Somebody--some desperate child needs to have somebody put their arm around them and say, “We love you.” And so there’s a--this is a society that--of ours has got to do a better job of teaching children right from wrong.

GORE: I think we have to start with better parenting. But I don’t think that we can ignore the role played by guns. I mean, the fact is that there--even though no state wants them--there are guns in some schools. And the reason it’s so difficult for schools to control that is because in recent years there has been a flood of cheap handguns that are widely available that kids are finding ways to get a hold of them.

And I think that if you look at the situation as it exists here in the United States compared to any other country in the world, it seems to me pretty obvious that while we respect the rights of hunters and sportsmen, we do need some common-sense gun safety steps to stem this flood of guns that are getting into the wrong hands.

Health Insurance

LEHRER: Governor, both of you have talked much about Medicare and health care for seniors. What about the more than 40 million younger Americans who do not have health insurance right now? What would you do about that?

BUSH: Well, I’ve got a plan to do something about that, to make health care affordable and available, this way. First, there are some who should be buying health care who choose not to. . . . Some of the healthy folks, healthy young kids say, “I never get sick, therefore I’m not going to have--don’t need health care right now.” And for those, what I think we need to do is to develop an investment-type vehicle that would be an incentive for them to invest, like medical savings accounts with rollover capacity. In other words, you say to a youngster, “It would be in your financial interest to start saving for future illness.”

But for the working folks that do want to have health care that can’t afford it, a couple of things we need to do. One, we need more community health centers. I’ve developed--put out money in my budget to expand community health centers all around the country. These are places where people can get primary care. . . .

Secondly, that you get a $2,000 rebate from the government if you’re a family of $30,000 or less--it scales down as it gets higher--that you can use to purchase health care in the private markets.

It’s going to be a huge down payment for a pretty darn good system if you allow--also allow, convince states to allow, allow states to allow--the mother to match some of the children’s health insurance money with it, to pool purchasing power.

And to make health care more affordable, allow business associations, like the National Federation of Independent Business or the Chamber of Commerce or the National Restaurant Assn., to write association plans across jurisdictional lines so that small businesses have got the capacity of national pooling to drive the cost of insurance down.

I think that’s the very best way to go. It empowers people. It trusts people. It makes--it--and it’s a practical way to encourage people to purchase health care insurance.

LEHRER: Vice President Gore?

GORE: It’s one of my top priorities, Jim, to give every single child in the United States affordable health care within the next four years.

I’d like to see eventually in this country some form of universal health care, but I’m not for a government-run system.

In fact, I’m for shrinking the size of government. I want a smaller and smarter government. I have been in charge of this reinventing government streamlining project that’s reduced the size of government by more than 300,000 people in the last several years. And the budget plan that I’ve put out--according to the Los Angeles Times, again--the way these things are typically measured as a percentage of the [gross domestic product], will bring government spending down to the lowest level in 50 years.

So I want to proceed carefully to cover more people. But I think we should start by greatly expanding the so-called Child Health Insurance--or CHIP--Program, to give health insurance to every single child in this country. I think it’s intolerable that we have so many millions of children without any health insurance. So it’s one of my top priorities.

Now I know that we have some disagreements on this, and I’m sorry to tell you that, you know, there is a record here--and Texas ranks 49th out of the 50 states in health care--in children with health care, 49th for women with health care and 50th for families with health care.

LEHRER: Governor . . . are the vice president’s figures correct about Texas?

BUSH: Well, first of all, let me say, he’s not for a government-run health care system. I thought that’s exactly what he and Mrs. Clinton and them fought for in 1993, was a government-run health care system. That was fortunately stopped in its tracks.

Secondly, we spend $4.7 billion a year on the uninsured in the state of Texas. Our rate of uninsured, the percentage of uninsured in Texas has gone down, while the percentage of uninsured in America has gone up. Our CHIPs program got a late start because our government meets only four months out of every two years, Mr. vice president. It may come as a shock for somebody who’s been in Washington for so long, but actually, limited government can work in the second-largest state in the union.

And therefore, Congress passes the bill after our session in 1997 ended. We passed the enabling legislation in ’99. We’ve signed up over 110,000 children to the CHIPs program. For comparable states our size, we’re signing them up as fast as any other state. And I--you can quote all the numbers you want, but I’m telling you, we care about our people in Texas. We spend a lot of money to make sure people get health care in the state of Texas. And we’re doing a better job than they are at the national level for reducing uninsured.

LEHRER: Is he right?

GORE: Well, I don’t know about all these percentages that he throws out, but I do know that--I speculate that the reason why he didn’t answer your question directly as to whether my numbers were right--the facts were right about Texas ranking dead last in families with health insurance and 49th out of 50 for both children and women is because those facts are correct.

And as for why it happened, I’m no expert on the Texas procedures, but what my friends there tell me is that the governor opposed a measure put forward by Democrats in the Legislature to expand the number of children that would be covered, and instead directed the money toward a tax cut, a significant part of which went to wealthy interests. He declared the need for a new tax cut for the oil companies in Texas an emergency need. And so the money was taken away from the CHIP program. . . .

You don’t have to take my word for this. There is now a federal judge’s opinion about the current management of this program, ordering the state of Texas to do--and you should read that judge’s language about this. There are 1.4--I believe there are 1.4 million children in Texas who do not have health insurance; 600,000 of whom--and maybe some of those have since gotten it--but as of a year ago, 600,000 of them were actually eligible for it, but they couldn’t sign up for it because of the barriers that they had to surmount.

LEHRER: Let’s let the governor respond to that. . . . Are those numbers correct? Are his charges correct?

BUSH: If he’s trying to allege that I’m a hard-hearted person and I don’t care about children, he’s absolutely wrong. We spend $4.7 billion a year in the state of Texas for uninsured people and they get health care. Now, that’s not the most efficient way to get people health care. . . .

But somehow the allegation that we don’t care and we’re going to give money for this interest or that interest and not for children in the state of Texas is totally absurd. And let me just tell you who the jury is: the people of Texas. There’s only been one governor ever elected to back-to-back four-year terms, and that was me. And I was able to do so with a lot of Democrat votes--nearly 50% of the Hispanic vote, about 27% of the African American vote--because people know that I’m a conservative person and a compassionate person.

LEHRER: Let me put that directly to you, Vice President Gore. . . . Are you suggesting that those numbers and that record will reflect the way Gov. Bush will operate in this area of health insurance as president?

GORE: Yes. Yes. But it’s not a statement about his heart. I don’t claim to know his heart. I think, I think he’s a good person. I make no allegations about that. I believe him when he says that he has a good heart. I know enough about your story to admire a lot of the things that you have done, as a person. But I think it’s about his priorities. . . . I mean, if you were the governor of a state that was dead last in health care for families and all of a sudden you find yourself with the biggest surplus your state had ever had in its history, wouldn’t you want to maybe use some of it to climb from 50th to, say, 45 or 40 or something, or maybe better? I would. . . .

So it’s not a question of his heart. It’s--as far as I know--it’s a question of priorities and values.

BUSH: My priority is going to be the health of our citizens. These folks have had eight years to get something done in Washington, D.C., on the uninsured. They have not done it. They’ve had eight years to get something done on Medicare, and they have not got it done. And my case to the American people is: If you’re happy with inactivity, stay with the horse, the horse that’s up there now. But if you want change, you need to get somebody who knows how to bring Republicans and Democrats together to get positive things done for America.

Environment

LEHRER: New question, new subject. Vice President Gore, on the environment, in your 1992 book you said, “We must make the rescue of our environment the central organizing principle for civilization, and there must be a wrenching transformation to save the planet.” Do you still feel that way?

GORE: I do. I think that, in this 21st century, we will soon see the consequences of what’s called global warming. There was a study just a few weeks ago suggesting that in summertime the North Polar ice cap would be completely gone in 50 years. Already many people see the strange weather conditions that the old-timers say they’ve never seen before in their lifetimes.

And what’s happening is the level of pollution is increasing significantly. . . .

Now, it’s true that we disagree on this. The governor said that he doesn’t think this problem is necessarily caused by people. He’s for letting the oil companies into the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Houston has just become the smoggiest city in the country, and Texas is No. 1 in industrial pollution.

We have a very different outlook. And I’ll tell you this: I will fight for a clean environment in ways that strengthen our economy.

BUSH: Well, let me start with Texas. We are a big industrial state. We reduced our industrial waste by 11%. We cleaned up more brownfields than any other administration in my state’s history--450 of them. Our water is cleaner now. . . .

The book you mentioned that Vice President Gore wrote, he also called for taxing, big energy taxes, in order to clean up the environment. And now that the energy prices are high, I guess he’s not advocating those big energy taxes right now.

I believe we ought to fully fund the Land and Water Conservation Fund with half the money going to states so states can make the right decisions for environmental quality. I think we need to have clean-coal technologies. I proposed $2 billion worth.

LEHRER: Where do you see the basic difference, in very simple terms, in two or three sentences, between you and the governor on the environment?

GORE: I’m really strongly committed to clean water and clear air and cleaning up the new kinds of challenges like global warming. I--he’s right that I’m not in favor of energy taxes.

I am in favor of tax cuts to encourage and give incentives for the quicker development of these new, new kinds of technologies, and let me say again, Detroit is, is raring to go on that.

We differ on the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, as I have said. We differ on whether or not pollution controls ought to be voluntary. I don’t think you can, I don’t think you can get results that way.

LEHRER: How would you draw the differences, governor?

BUSH: I don’t believe in command-and-control out of Washington, D.C. I believe Washington ought to set standards, but I don’t--again, I think we ought to be collaborative at the local levels.

Character

LEHRER: For you, governor, and this flows somewhat out of the [Oct. 3] Boston debate. You, your running mate, your campaign officials have charged that Vice President Gore exaggerates, embellishes and stretches the facts, etc. Are you--do you believe these are serious issues, this is a serious issue that the voters should use in deciding which one of you two men to vote for on Nov. 7?

BUSH: Well, we all make mistakes. I’ve been known to mangle a syllable or two myself, you know--but--if you know what I mean.

I think credibility is important. It’s going to be important to be the--for the president to be credible with Congress, important for the president to be credible with foreign nations.

And yes, I think it’s something that people need to consider. This isn’t something new.

I read a report or a memo from somebody in the 1988 campaign--I forgot the fellow’s name--warning then-Sen. Gore to be careful about exaggerating claims.

And you know, I thought, during his debate with Sen. [Bill] Bradley, saying he authored the EITC [Earned Income Tax Credit] when it didn’t happen . . . he co-sponsored McCain-Feingold, and yet he didn’t. And so I think this is an issue. . . . But the people are going to have to make up their mind on this issue.

LEHRER: Vice President Gore?

GORE: I got some of the details wrong last week in some of the examples that I used, Jim, and I’m sorry about that. And I’m going to try to do better.

One of the reasons I regret it is that it--getting a detail wrong--interfered several times with the point that I was trying to make.

However many days that young girl in Florida stood in her classroom, however long, even if it was only one day, doesn’t change the fact that there are a lot of overcrowded classrooms in America. And we need to do something about that.

There are seniors who pay more for their prescriptions than a lot of other people, more than their pets--sometimes, more sometimes than people in foreign countries, and we need to do something about that, not with a measure that leaves the majority of them without any real basic health until the next president’s term or four years is over, but right away. And that means doing it under the Medicare program.

I can’t promise that I will never get another detail wrong. I can promise you that I will try not to, and hard. But I will promise you this with all the confidence in my heart and in the world: that I will do my best, if I’m elected president, I’ll work my heart out to get the big things right for the American people.

LEHRER: Does that resolve the issue, governor?

BUSH: That’s going to be up to the people, isn’t it?

LEHRER: And your campaign officials, Vice President Gore, are now calling, now calling the governor a “bumbler.”

BUSH: Wait a minute!

LEHRER: I mean, is--my point is, should this--is this . . .

GORE: I don’t use language like that, and I don’t think that we should.

LEHRER: It’s in your, it’s in your commercials.

GORE: I haven’t seen that. In my commercial?

BUSH: Yeah. . . . You haven’t seen the commercial?

GORE: I think that what, I think the point of that is that anybody would have a hard time trying to make a tax cut plan that’s so large, that would put us into such big deficits, that gives almost half the benefits to the wealthiest of the wealthy. I think anybody would have a hard time explaining that clearly in a way that makes sense to the average person.

BUSH: That’s the kind of exaggeration I was just talking about.

GORE: Well, I wasn’t the one having trouble explaining it.

Closing Remarks

GORE: This race is about values, it’s about change, it’s about giving choices to the American people. And education is my No. 1 priority, because I think that it’s the most important, big, major change that we can bring in our country.

I agree with Gov. Bush that we should have new accountability; testing of students.

I think that we should require states to test all students, test schools and school districts, and I think that we should go further and require teacher testing for new teachers, also.

The difference is that, while my plan starts with new accountability and maintains local control, it doesn’t stop there.

Because I want to give new choices to parents, to send their kids to college with a $10,000 tax deduction for college tuition, per child, per year. I want to reduce the size of the classrooms in this country--for one basic reason, so that students can get more one-on-one time with teachers.

And the way to do that is first to recruit more teachers. I’ve a plan in my budget to recruit 100,000 new, highly qualified teachers and to help local school districts build new schools. I think that we have to put more emphasis on early learning and preschool.

Now, here is how that connects with all the rest of what we’ve been talking about. If you have--if you squander the surplus on a huge tax cut that goes mostly to those at the top--then you can’t make education the top priority.

If the tax cut is your No. 1, 2, 3 and 4 priority, you can’t do education. You can’t do both, you have to choose. I choose education and health care, the environment and retirement security. And I ask for your support.

BUSH: I’m running to get some things done for America. There’s too many issues left unresolved. There’s been too much finger-pointing and too much name-calling in Washington, D.C.

I’d like to unite this country to get an agenda done that will speak to the hopes and aspirations of the future. I want to have an education system that sets high standards, local control of schools, and strong accountability. No child should be left behind in America.

I want to make sure we rebuild our military to keep the peace. I worry about morale in today’s military. The warning signs are clear; it’s time to have a new commander in chief who will rebuild the military, pay our men and women more and make sure they’re housed better, and have a focused mission for our military.

Once and for all, I want to do something about Medicare. The issue’s been too long on the table because it’s been a political issue. It’s time to bring folks together to say that all seniors will get prescription drug coverage.

I want to do something about Social Security. It’s an important priority because now is the time to act, and we’re going to say to our seniors, our promises we’ve made to you will be promises kept.

But younger workers, in order to make sure the system exists tomorrow, younger workers ought to be able to take some of your own money and invest it in safe securities to get a better rate of return on that money.

And finally, I do believe in tax relief. I believe we can set our priorities. I don’t believe, like the vice president does, in huge government. I believe in limited government. And by having a limited government and a focused government, we can send some of the money back to the people who pay the bills.

I want to have tax relief for all people who pay the bills in America, because I think you can spend your money more wisely than the federal government can.

Thank you for listening. I’m asking for your vote.