Crashes Fuel Debate on Copter Flights

The fatal Marine Corps helicopter crash Thursday night into a remote hillside in eastern Orange County, added to a growing list of other recent military copter crashes, is a reminder that flying helicopters “is risky business,” said the mayor of Irvine, a city wedged between two Marine air stations.

“I think at this point it’s clear that flying helicopters is an inherently dangerous activity. It’s risky business that can produce tragic consequences, not only to pilots but also to innocent civilians,” Irvine Mayor Larry Agran said. The crash underscores Agran’s contention that it is time for the Marines to start moving all of their helicopters out of air stations in Orange County and down to Camp Pendleton, he said.

On Saturday, military officials announced the grounding of all CH-53E Super Stallions, 45 of which are based in Tustin. But the order does not affect other military helicopters or planes that fly over Orange County neighborhoods.

“It’s encouraging to learn that whatever internal investigation is taking place has revealed what may be a cause of recent crashes,” Agran said. “The residents of Irvine and other communities affected by these helicopter overflights, and apparently at some risk, will, I’m sure, rest more comfortably, knowing that we may be getting to the bottom of these recent tragedies.”

The Irvine City Council, concerned with the number of military helicopters from the air stations in Tustin and El Toro, has instructed its Public Safety Commission to look into the issue of military helicopter safety. A report to the City Council is expected in about a month.

In Tustin, City Council members last month sent a letter to the Marine Corps urging the military to stop flying the CH-53E Super Stallions over populated neighborhoods.

Crashes involving the huge CH-53D Sea Stallion and CH-53E Super Stallion helicopters have caused scores of deaths. The helicopter that crashed Thursday night was a CH-46E “Sea Knight” on a training run between El Toro and Camp Pendleton. It is a smaller, twin-rotor transport that had the lowest accident rate of any Navy aircraft in 1984.

Tustin Mayor Donald J. Saltarelli said Friday that because a different aircraft was involved, Thursday’s crash does not underscore his concerns about the Super Stallion helicopters flying over his city.

“We’re real saddened to hear of another accident,” Saltarelli said. “But it’s not the same helicopter, and I don’t believe there’s any relationship.”

Saltarelli also said he was pleased at the news of the grounding of the CH-53Es.

“I’m very gratified if they’ve found something that needs repair or modification to make the aircraft safer,” he said. “I hope it will be beneficial to everyone.”

Saltarelli said he had met with base officials and had been assured that the Marines “won’t be making any flights on instrument (only) landing approach to John Wayne Airport. If they continue to do training (only) on the base and over unpopulated areas, we’re very satisfied.”

Tustin Councilwoman Ursula E. Kennedy agreed with the mayor.

“This crash (Thursday) makes us think wow, we’re all living together, sharing airspace, and the pilots are training here. . . . This crash makes us aware that it’s dangerous to be in the military, dangerous to be near the military, and we’re grief-stricken about the Marines who died,” Kennedy said. “But the issues are truly separate ones.”

Residents living near the Tustin base expressed similar concerns Saturday.

“I don’t know if there is a solution, short of moving the whole base,” said Ron Guminski, who has lived on Fallen Leaf Place just north of the base for three years. “But if one of those goes down, one of those Super Stallions, in a populated area, somebody’s going to get wiped out.”

Like the Area

Despite the noise and the history of crashes, Guminski echoed other residents who said they liked the area too much to think about moving.

“I’m not all that concerned,” said Valerie Fletcher, who has lived on Foxcroft Road for 17 years. She noted that flights out of the base were far more frequent during the Vietnam War. Moving the helicopters “would be nice,” she said, “but I don’t think they’ll do it. As they say, they were here first.”

Lou Jakober said he checked out flight patterns before moving into an Apple Tree Drive home about 12 years ago. What he saw told him the helicopters would be flying over industrial areas southeast of his property.

But it hasn’t worked out that way and the big choppers often go right over his home on their way to the base. “They shake the daylights out of things. . . . It would certainly make us feel more confident if they flew where they’re supposed to,” he said.

Thinks They Should Leave

Although Jakober said he believes the construction of military housing next to the base is a good indication that the Marine Corps is here to stay, his father, also named Lou, said military leaders should realize that the county is too populous for helicopter flights. “I think they’re at a point now where they should leave. You’ve got all this desert where they can do their training,” he said.

Eric Gruver, chairman of the Irvine Public Safety Commission that is looking into helicopter safety, said Thursday’s crash, even if it was a different aircraft, “brings home the fact that we have a job to do.”

The commission, which has held two hearings on the issue, “is trying to get some objective data on helicopters and establish a threat assessment,” he said. “I think there’s a general feeling of impotence by people living under the helicopters because they’ve been complaining a long time. It remains to be seen how cooperative the Marine Corps will be. There have been signs they will cooperate and signs that they have the attitude that they were there first . . . . “

The commission--which has among its members retired Brig. Gen. William A. Bloomer, former commander of the Tustin air base--has heard residents’ complaints and has requested that Sens. Alan Cranston and Pete Wilson look into the safety of the helicopters at the two air stations. In addition, both Tustin and Irvine are eager to see a soon-to-be-released report by U.S. Rep. Robert E. Badham (R-Newport Beach), who called for a probe of the Super Stallion last year.

Supportive of Military

Tustin council members Saltarelli and Kennedy met with Marine Corps Brig Gen. D.E.P. Miller recently after the military turned down Tustin’s request to halt flights. Saltarelli described the session as “cordial” and stressed that while city officials still want the Marines to “not fly over populated areas,” Tustin remains supportive of the military’s presence in the city.

Irvine Mayor Agran took a harsher stand.

“My own belief is that the time is at hand to seriously explore the relocation of helicopter-overflying activities simply because the residential areas of Irvine and Tustin have grown so that these activities are no long compatible,” Agran said.

He does not believe it should be an “immediate relocation,” he said, “but we should talk about planning for a scaling down of overflight activities at the earliest possible date, which might be for a number of years.” But it should lead to an eventual relocation of all the helicopters to Camp Pendleton, he said. He had no objection to the Marines retaining their other activities at the Tustin and El Toro bases and was not advocating the bases’ closure, he said.

Agran said he wishes that he could ask Badham, who represents Irvine, for help, but the congressman “more often than not has reacted in a way that took the Marine Corps’ point of view.”

Irvine Councilman Ray Catalano added that the city is in an difficult position negotiating with the Marine Corps. Irvine may be critical of the flights from El Toro, but if the military goes, a civilian airport might replace it, which the city opposes.

“We don’t have a lot of leverage. In fact, the opposite is true; they have a lot of leverage on us,” he said.

Just how much change Irvine can bring about remains to be seen, Agran said. “The city does not have jurisdiction, that’s clear, nor do we have a lot of political influence.”

Marine Corps grounds its fleet of Super Stallion helicopters at Tustin due to mechanical problems. Part I, Page 1.