MOVIES : Wounded Lives to Wounded Knee : Michael Apted has documented the pain of the British class system for nearly 30 years. Next up: the plight of American Indians

“This is a ridiculous time for me--frankly I’m spread a bit thin right now,” admits director Michael Apted as he races against the clock to complete the final sound mixes on “Thunderheart,” the last of three films he will have in release over the next two months. “I wish these films could be spread out a bit more--people are gonna get tired of me.”

Articulate and friendly, Apted has a relaxed, breezy manner and a dry sense of humor that no doubt came in handy in the making of “35 Up,” the first of the trio to open. That film, which opened Friday, is largely dependent on the fact that Apted is a very likable man.

The fifth installment of a project that’s occupied Apted for 28 years, “35 Up” is a series of intensely personal interviews (conducted by Apted, who is off camera), with 14 Britishers who were introduced to the public at the age of 7 in “7 Up,” a 1964 television documentary examining the British class system. The show subsequently blossomed into an ongoing chronicle of 14 very different lives. Hired fresh out of college by Granada Television to work as a researcher for the first film (he was 21 at the time), Apted returned seven years later to interview the group at age 14 for “7 Plus 7,” which was followed by “21” and “28 Up.” Apted’s critically acclaimed series recently spawned two spinoffs, “28 Up in America,” directed by Phil Joanou, and “28 Up in Russia,” which was begun shortly before the breakup of the Soviet Union. Apted is serving as an adviser on both films.

“My most personal work is the ‘Up’ series--there’s more of me in this than in anything I’ve done because it’s all to do with my relationship with these people,” says Apted, who left England for America in 1979 and has directed several feature films since moving to Los Angeles (“Coal Miner’s Daughter,” “Gorillas in the Mist” and last year’s “Class Action” are among his credits).

Along with exposing the inequities of the British class system, Apted’s ingenious form of time-lapse biography underscores the similarities in these people, whose lives seem to ebb and flow in parallel ways.

“Different things come up in each film and each has a distinct feeling,” says Apted, who was born in Aylesbury, England, and studied history and law at Cambridge. “ ‘7 Up’ is amazingly cute and charming in both a good and bad sense. ‘7 Plus 7’ is the most tortured film and is a real insight into the adolescent mind. It makes you wonder what happens to people between 7 and 14--outgoing, bright children turn into taciturn, morose teen-agers. At 21 they come out of their shells again and are full of life and the power they felt was in their hands. They were pretty obnoxious at 14 and 21, but as they get older they become nicer. At 28 you sense the pattern of their working life is set, and if they hadn’t made it by then, they were going to have problems. With the new film, several of them have lost a parent, and the issue of mortality presents itself for the first time.”

Among the surprising things that surface in the series; none of Apted’s subjects have any involvement with drugs or crime, none are gay, and with the exception of one participant, all lead lives that are relatively untouched by tragedy.

“When ’28 Up’ came out someone said how can this film have any validity when it doesn’t deal with one of the great social issues of our time, which is drugs,” says Apted, who is married and has two grown sons. “But drugs weren’t prevalent in England during this period--they simply weren’t an issue.”

One of the participants, Neil, is a highly intelligent man who had become a homeless derelict by the age of 28. “Neil is a manic depressive with more lows than highs, and mixed up with that is this incredible stress that was imposed on him--or he imposed on himself--as a teen-ager,” Apted says. “He had an overwhelming desire to succeed and when he didn’t succeed it sent him haywire. Of all the people in the film Neil generates the most interest because his story is the most traumatic and he’s phenomenally articulate.” (Neil received thousands of letters and several job offers after “28 Up” was released in 1984--but he continues to lead a life of destitution).

Asked what kind of conclusions the series has led him to draw about the British class system, Apted says “it shows it’s been a serious obstacle for a lot of these people. The common problem these people face is that the economic roof fell in on most people born in England in the ‘50s. England’s been in a recession for nearly 20 years and even some of the wealthier ones have come up against roadblocks. More than emotional things, financial things have been constricting for this generation.”

In discussing the difficulties of making the films (which are shot for very little--”35 Up” cost just $600,000), Apted says one of the hardest things is persuading his subjects to participate. Three of the original 14 have dropped out, and the 11 still on board grumble on camera about the disruptive intrusion of media into their lives.

“The actual making of the film doesn’t take long--I shoot for about a month, then edit for two months--but the preparation is endless,” says Apted. “I start about a year before, ringing them up and testing the waters to find out which ones I’m going to have to work on persuading to do the film--a process that can get very wearing. With all of them there are subjects they won’t talk about and I have to agree to that, because the only way to keep the project going is to make them partners in it.” (Apted pays his subjects and also divided a recent cash prize the film won among them).

“I may push them further than they want to go, but I don’t ask them stuff they’ll be defensive about. One might assume the people who won’t participate are ashamed of their lives,” he adds, “but in fact, two of the people who dropped out are very successful. People declined to participate for various reasons, but none felt they were misrepresented in the film.”

Reflecting on what he’s learned from the project, Apted comments “it’s taught me that the popular definition of happiness is far too narrow, and I’ve had to be careful not to project my values onto these people. I’m middle class, ambitious and driven, and my ideas about success and failure don’t necessarily apply to them.

“When Jackie decided to have an illegitimate child she achieved great happiness, and the same is true of Bruce, who gets tremendous gratification from helping underprivileged children. I, on the other hand, wouldn’t feel terribly successful if I were making tiny independent films in London. So I have to make an effort to keep my needs out of the film.

“I have a colossal amount of material on each person (the ratio of film shot to film used is 30 to 1) and could tell 50 different stories about each of them--I could recut the footage and make them all failures or successes, obnoxious or saintly. With a documentary one exercises tremendous power in the editing process, and the choices I make in the editing room teach me a lot about my own ingrained attitudes and beliefs.”

Next up for Apted is another documentary, “Incident at Oglala,” set for release in March, which takes him from the comfortable routine of daily life in London to one of the most volatile spots on the U.S. map. The story of Leonard Peltier, the American Indian leader currently serving two consecutive life sentences for the killing of two FBI agents, the film was made in an attempt to get the Peltier case reopened.

Apted’s third film, “Thunderheart,” will be released April 3. Written by John Fusco and starring Val Kilmer, Sam Shepard, Fred Ward and Graham Greene, it covers much of the same material dealt with in “Incident at Oglala.”

“When Mike Medavoy at TriStar sent me the script for ‘Thunderheart,’ I was amazed to discover how much overlap there is in the two films,” recalls Apted, who spent much of 1990-91 shooting in South Dakota. “Both are based on the same series of events in the ‘70s, most of which took place on the Pine Ridge Reservation and led to the imprisonment of Leonard Peltier.”

The chief difference is that while “Oglala” is based on a real incident, “Thunderheart” is the fictional story of an FBI of Indian blood who is sent to investigate a murder on a reservation and in the process uncovers a government conspiracy and discovers the real meaning of his heritage.

Described as “the most significant murder trial in this country since Sacco and Vanzetti” by author Peter Matthiessen (whose 1983 book “In the Spirit of Crazy Horse” provided important source material for both films), the Peltier case has been a top priority for Robert Redford, who produced “Incident at Oglala” and speaks of it with great passion.

“In 1980, when Peter was still working on ‘In the Spirit of Crazy Horse,’ he asked whether I’d be interested in it for a film and of course I was, because of him and because of the subject,” recalls Redford, also working at the sound studio. “Then the following year Peter and I heard a rumor that Leonard was going to be murdered in prison so I went to visit him thinking that might draw some attention to him that would help protect him. I had this moment with Leonard--the first live moment he’d had with anyone since he’d been put in jail--that had tremendous impact on me. When I came out I committed the next while to trying to help him get a fair trial because I was convinced he’d been railroaded into prison--the FBI was determined to pin these killings on somebody and Leonard was the only one available.

“I didn’t get anywhere with the court system, so I decided a documentary might be the most effective way to help him. I didn’t direct it myself because I was committed to another film at the time and didn’t have any experience making a documentary--I’d worked on a lot of them, but had never actually filmed one. I approached Michael to do it because I really like his work.”

Says Apted: “I knew nothing about the case when Redford approached me with the idea of doing a film about Leonard, but I was immediately fascinated by the story.”

Peltier’s misfortunes are but a small part of the larger and very tragic story of violence, alcoholism, poverty and governmental abuse that have ravaged the American Indian population. Those problems came to a head on June 26, 1975, at Wounded Knee on the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota when Indian activists occupied Wounded Knee with a list of demands that included a federal review of the Treaty of 1868. The government’s military response culminated in a gun battle that left dead men on both sides and put Peltier in jail where he remains, even though the courts concede that much of the evidence against him was fabricated or faulty. Though several people, many of them armed, were at the scene at the time of the incident, Peltier was selected--arbitrarily it would seem--to be held responsible. In 1990, an Indian man came forward and confessed to the crime. However, the courts have chosen to ignore that confession.

“Making this film was almost impossible--the FBI stonewalled us at every turn,” Redford recalls. “The real killer was when we were told we couldn’t get in to see Leonard unless we had credentials only a news organization can provide--we knew we had no film if we couldn’t talk to Leonard. Up to that point the networks had no interest in Leonard, but they suddenly got real interested in why we wanted their credentials to make a film. NBC was the one we had the most trouble with. We told them we’ll be happy to share footage with you--we just need the credentials--but this guy at NBC told us, ‘We have no interest in Leonard and we don’t want to waste our credentials.’ Finally, the BBC gave us credentials and we got in at the last minute.”

Says Apted of the time spent in South Dakota: “Many people express an interest in Native American politics of the ‘70s, but very few people actually do anything, so it was difficult to win the Indians’ trust. Coming on the back of ‘Dances With Wolves’ did make it easier though, because (Kevin) Costner did such a good job handling relations with the Indian community--for once Hollywood’s name wasn’t mud with them when I showed up.

“ ‘Dances With Wolves’ definitely increased public interest in American Indians,” he continues, “but we’re going to find out--maybe to our cost--how deep that interest goes. As good as it was, Costner’s film wasn’t dangerous--it was romantic and historical and gave people a way to exorcise guilt they had about what was done to the Indians from the comfort of 100 years’ distance. People are much more reluctant to look at the reality of their lives now. My films will reveal whether Costner’s success was the result of a cosmetic interest in the Indians, or whether people genuinely care about what’s happening to them now.

Redford sadly admits he doesn’t believe the public’s attitude toward American Indians has really changed. “Right now, it’s at a high point because of ‘Dances With Wolves’ but like most things in America it goes hot and cold. Generally, Native Americans have been treated with a shameful disregard that I suppose is indicative of our shallowness as a country and our obsession with quick fixes and profits.

“As a country we’ve been spoiled and had a lot of success--we haven’t experienced the hardships the Soviet Union and most of Europe have weathered that taught them to value their own heritage. We talk about it, but we don’t do much about it. I’m not very good at second-guessing the film marketplace so I don’t know if people will come out and see this film. All I can say is Michael’s made a good film and we’ve tried.”

One might assume Apted would take some time off after this frenzied spate of work, but in April he plans to begin shooting “c.c. Riders,” a television pilot for Osiris, a production company he formed with Robert O’Connor. It was Apted and O’Connor who conceived and developed the production of “Bram Stoker’s Dracula,” currently being shot by Francis Ford Coppola, and they also have several other projects in the works, including a contemporary adaptation of “Crime and Punishment” (they’re talking to Andrei Konchalovsky about directing it).

Of his abundance of work, Apted says, “I’ve always had a fortunate life--things have just panned out for me, like getting the job at Granada when I was 21. I’ve been very lucky. Better men than myself have fallen by the wayside.”