‘Monica Always Made Excuses for’ President’s Behavior Toward Her

These are excerpts from the grand jury testimony of Pentagon employee Linda Tripp.

Q: We talked yesterday about Betty Currie being in what you called an “interference mode.” Is that correct?

A: As a facilitator.

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Q: OK. If you would explain to the grand jury how Monica would react to this interference mode that Betty would be in and how that would have an effect--what effect that would have on Monica.

A: I guess to give you the bigger picture of how this evolved--and I don’t know if this is what you want me to do. When Monica was at the White House, she developed a relationship with Betty. It was a cordial relationship. I believe they even socialized on more than one occasion with Walter Kay, who had been the gentleman who sponsored Monica’s internship. So there had been a dialogue already.

When Monica left the White House, Betty was the person to whom she turned for contact with the president, but for the most part it was--in fact it was not ever addressed what the nature--at that point what the nature of the relationship was. It was implied but it was never said in so many words.

So Monica did speak to Betty very, very frequently. Betty was, as always, warm and cordial, took Monica’s calls routinely, and acted as the facilitator.

As time went on--now we’re after the election and Monica expects to go back to the White House--her repeated attempts to get back to the White House and to see the president more frequently met with increased resistance from Betty, and not in a direct way, it was a way . . . what caused the frustration, in my mind, was that Betty would say, “I’ll get it right in to him. Yes, I--”

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Q: When she said, “I’ll get it right in to him,” what was she referring to?

A: Oh, Monica sent many things over--letters, gifts, phone messages, this kind of thing. And then wouldn’t do it and wouldn’t do it in a way that Monica thought was fast enough. And it was because Monica--Monica would send a letter, and it would say in the letter--since she couldn’t call the president directly ever, she would send a letter and say, “I really need to see you tonight,” or tomorrow night, or whatever it was, “and I need to speak to you. Please let me know which of those two days will work, “or whatever. “I’m waiting.”

Then she would go get her hair done, buy a new outfit, have everything ready. And Betty would, in turn, say, “I have it. I’ll get it in to him today or tomorrow. Actually, there is this block or that block of time available.” And then nothing would happen. She would hear nothing.

So she would page Betty repeatedly. Betty would generally ignore them until it got threatening.

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Q: When you say “threatening,” what do you mean?

A: Well, it all escalated and became more contentious as each month passed and Monica was getting pushed aside that much more.

So it depended. I mean, there were messages that were threatening. “Drop dead,” you know, that kind of thing, which I guess I can talk about later.

But the reality is that Monica felt at times that Betty was her friend because Betty was helping her, and her biggest obstacle, because in Monica’s mind it wasn’t the president who was putting her off, it was Betty who was running interference, independent of the president.

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Q: Now, when Monica would get more and more agitated because of the response of Betty Currie, what would Betty’s response to Monica’s agitation be?

A: Oh, all the same, always, generally always. There was one or two--an exception or two.

Generally she would say, “Oh, no, no, no, no.” In fact, Monica had it down to an imitation that sounded exactly like Betty because it was repeated so many times, “No, no, no, no, no. Oh, you mustn’t say that. Oh, I’m sure that’s not true. “I’m sure it’s just that he’s too busy right now. Of course he wants to see you.” this kind of--it was very placating and, “I’m sure you really don’t mean that. Oh, please don’t say that kind of thing.” Always.

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Q: And just to make it clear, you have this knowledge because Monica told you this stuff.

A: Not only.

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Q: OK. Because you had actually heard Betty on the phone those couple times.

A: Yes. . . .

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Q: And then also just to be clear, we’re talking as a general matter, and you intend to give more specific examples later on in your testimony. Is that correct?

A: Oh, yeah.

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Q: OK. When Betty would actually arrange a contact between the president and Monica Lewinsky, how long would the contact usually last?

A: Meaning when she did get in?

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Q: Yes.

A: The shortest visit was 60 seconds, in Monica’s words, and the--I would say they ran--from anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour and a half.

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Q: OK. And where would those visits occur?

A: They only ever occurred in the study.

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Q: When you say “the study,” you mean the small room that’s off the Oval Office in the White House?

A: Well, yes, it’s between the Oval Office and the president’s dining room.

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Juror: When she did get to see the president, did she ever ask him or talk to him about the fact that she felt Betty was in an interference mode?

A: Yes. One time, in particular, she--this had to do with him--at one time--this was last summer--he had offered to Monica, actually invited Monica to come over the following morning, and she--and it was a work day for her, and she said, “Well, I don’t know if I can, but I’ll try.” . . .

It wasn’t a question of his availability or interest in seeing her. . . .

So Monica called Betty repeatedly the next morning, and repeatedly, and, again, the evasiveness and then the pages, and then Monica’s rage building and frustration building.

Then she finds out . . . he’s gone golfing, and she absolutely flips, and she--finally, when she did get in to see him, which was not that day, but the very next time she got in to him, she brought up that very thing, and he said, she said, “It’s all because of Betty. Betty didn’t take my calls.” And he let her believe it was Betty. It was later on that she realized that was untrue.

And there were other--there was something that came up later that he slipped, and she found out--and she found things different ways, sometimes from Betty, . . . sometimes from others.

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Juror: Did she then begin to get the picture that he didn’t want to see her?

A: I don’t think she thought he didn’t want to see her at all. I think she--Monica always made excuses for his behavior. And I think she thought that, well, he wasn’t really sure whether she was coming, so he went ahead and made golf plans.

There was always, ultimately, an excuse for him.

‘Flipping Out’

Q: Ms. Tripp, you just used--in response to the grand juror’s question, you just said that Monica Lewinsky “absolutely flipped.” Why don’t you just give a little more detail about what you meant by that?

A: Unless you know someone in your life is very, very volatile and emotional and feels things in a way that has to be demonstrated not just in a way that is internalized, but has to be dramatically let out, you would not recognize what I’m trying to say.

I come from an Italian background. I can tell you that I’m used to eruptions. I am. This is unlike anything I’ve ever seen. And it’s because she’s dramatic, and when she is pushed to the limit, she’s overwhelmingly emotional.

And by “flipping out” I mean, screaming, crying, out of control, frenzied rage, throwing things. And then she’d get on the phone and call me in that state.

Most of that happened up until the time the relationship, the physical relationship, ended. But there were other occasions. And when Monica flipped out, Betty was the recipient of the rage, not the president. . . .

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Q: Now let’s go back to when the president and Monica would actually have these encounters in the study, as you’ve described it.

Did Betty have anything to do with how these contacts would end?

A: Can I add something to what I just said?

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Q: Please do.

It just occurred to me that most people who fly into a rage, the first thing--I would not expect the first thing that I’d hear would be suicidal threats. Yet Monica was to that point repeatedly.

One quote was--and I was frightened because she lived in the Watergate without her mom 90% of the time. She was all alone. She didn’t like being alone. And she would say these things to me generally prior to July--it was right around the July-August time frame that it really came to a head, where she would say things like, “I wish I had pills. I wish I could just kill myself. The only thing that keeps me from doing it is knowing that my mother couldn’t handle it.”

And it’s completely believable because Monica--her mom is probably the most important person to her in the entire world, and then her brother. So suicidal threats, to me, were just part of the--part of the rage, but not something that would discount as being out of the realm of the possible.

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Q: Let’s then go back to these contacts. When they would end, did Betty have anything to do with how a visit with the president would end?

A: When what would end?

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Q: When Monica and the president were having one of these visits in the study.

A: Oh, yes, always.

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Q: OK. Please explain to the grand jury what Betty’s role would be, or how she would act.

A: I don’t know that Monica ever left without Betty coming back to get her. And the nature of her coming back got more personal over time.

In the beginning it was more--she would come back to get her, and it was pretty businesslike. But as time went on and--she would even assist her in making sure she looked unrumpled when she left.

Always came back--generally by the time they were finished in the study, they went to the dining room table, in the room off the study, and sat and chatted for a while, and it was then generally that Betty came back.

There were times when she came back when they were in the study, but at that point they were only talking.

Monica used to say, “It’s as though he has a button that he pushes,” and she gets the message it’s time to come in now.

‘Arm Myself With Records’

Juror: This is in response to the question I had asked about why she continued to maintain contact and what apparently we’re hearing is that you maintained contact out of some feeling of self--some feeling that you needed to control or at least be part of the situation so as to protect yourself. Is that correct?

A: Well, by the time, by July 4th, it was completely frightening to me to learn that Monica had had a topic of discussion solely about me with the president of the United States.

That was in no way, shape or form anything that I had imagined happening. That began to frighten me.

It wasn’t until the July 14th meeting that she had with him, which I found out about later, that terrified me and the subsequent conversation with Bruce Lindsey on July 29th scared me to death.

And at that time, I knew I had to arm myself with records because no one would believe it. And I still didn’t make the decision to arm myself with records until October.

And it was a long, painful, horrible process. And it was nothing--to ever intimate or believe that that was an easy decision is completely false. But in my opinion, the bottom line came down to I had no choice at all.

My idea was never to manufacture evidence. In fact, I had never even thought about the independent counsel in my wildest dreams.

My idea was I’m going to arm myself with records so when I’m in a position to speak under oath I can do so truthfully, not be set up in a perjury trap, and say, “Fine. You think I’m committing perjury, here. Have a look.”

At no time did I make a conscious effort to catalog or document or even date the conversations. It was just my way of having my backup so that when I had the fear of losing everything that I had worked for my entire life, and my children, that I would have some way to prove that I was not lying under oath. . . .

If I was writing this after knowing what I subsequently found out in July, these notes would have been far, far more concise.

There would have been a logic to it that would be discernible to more than just me. They wouldn’t have been all over the map. This--this was never meant to serve as a record. . . .

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Q: When you say “This was meant to serve as a record,” what are you pointing to?

A: The taping. When I began taping, that was to serve as a record.