VALLEY PERSPECTIVE INTERVIEW : Jayne Murphy Shapiro : Kids Safe Founder Shifts Focus to School Violence and Its Prevention

Jayne Murphy Shapiro founded a child advocacy group called Kids Safe in 1995 with the goal of protecting children from abuse and molestation in the United States.

But recently the nonprofit organization has turned its attention to school safety. In April, following the school massacre in Littleton, Colo., it appointed a five-member task force to hold hearings and consult nearly 200 administrators, teachers, parents, psychologists, police officers and community activists about school safety.

Their report concluded that although Los Angeles schools have police protection, conflict resolution programs and active parent groups, campuses need to make better use of these resources if they are to remain safe.

The Times recently talked to Shapiro about her group and its findings.

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Question: Why did your organization become involved in school safety?

Answer: Several years ago, talking to police, parents and educators, we found that people were not only just concerned about crime on campuses but they wanted to do something. They wanted to do something as a group. And I felt that the best thing to do was to bring these people together, and we did that with the idea that we would hold several hearings. When the [North Valley] Jewish Community Center shootings happened [in Granada Hills], I said, “You know what? We’ll continue the hearings, but right now I want to get a report out. I want to get this thing moving. And I want to get this level of awareness out there so that the kids going into these schools know that the community is working with them for their safety’s sake.”

Q: Yet most statistics say that campuses are relatively safe, despite the highly visible incidents such as Littleton. Police even say crime on campus is at a lower level than in the past.

A: I don’t dispute what our police force is saying in terms of statistics. But as a community activist and as a parent of four teenage boys, I can honestly say that if it’s down, it’s not down far enough. Our concerns are about how kids talk to each other; with hate, anger, inappropriate language toward each other, intolerance toward each other. One little boy I know was beaten up by three other boys, and they were all just 8 years old. The little boy never told the teachers, it went unnoticed at the school, the child came home from school and passed out on the kitchen floor. Only then was the mother aware that something had happened. And he was in the hospital for several days. That’s the kind of thing that we need to get to, because for whatever reason, he could retaliate, become angry and go after someone, or these three little kids could be just starting on a road that in high school will be even worse. Those are the levels of concerns that Kids Safe has.

Q: To what to you attribute such problems on campus?

A: We are all on such a fast track. I think that a lot of our educators are so busy with what they’re doing that they could maybe be standing there and not even seeing it because their minds are three weeks down the road. Parents are so busy. Both parents are working. And if they’re home, they’re busy at home. And so it’s not that they don’t care. I think that people are so preoccupied with their own way of living that a lot of this stuff goes unnoticed. And I feel you listen to your kids when they are acting out the most. That’s when they get your attention. So if a child doesn’t want to tell anybody because he’s afraid to, then his problems could go unnoticed. I don’t really put the blame on anybody.

Q: So you don’t equate campus violence with a declining moral climate?

A: Yes, there is some semblance of a moral decline in our society, but that’s a whole different story. In my day, you were taught in the home that if you acted inappropriately there would be consequences. Kids don’t have consequences for their actions these days. I think consequences really help, and I don’t mean necessarily taking a child and kicking him out of one school only to go the next high school, three blocks away.

Q: Would you like to see that policy ended?

A: I would. But why wait until the child gets dismissed from the school? Why can’t there be antennas up years before to spot this type of behavior or to pick out certain things that are inappropriate and deal with them then?

Q: How would you accomplish that?

A: We need counselors at the early ages that are available to these kids. I know at the public high schools you’ve got one counselor for who knows how many hundreds of children. I know that when a high school or junior high school kid has a concern, the last person he or she is going to go to is the counselor. And if the kid does decide to go the counselor, there’s a waiting line, or you have make a an appointment. Well, if you’ve got a concern, you don’t want an appointment. I think that teachers have to be more hands-on. I know that’s criticizing, and I’m not an educator so that’s not easy for me and it’s not fair of me to do that. But teaching English and math should not be the only responsibility of our teachers. They have got to know that there are concerns at early ages and we’ve got to do something about it. I don’t mean teaching religious viewpoints or anything like that, but these kids have to know right from wrong and that there are consequences if they do wrong.

Q: And outside the school?

A: Our concerns range from the house to the schoolyard, from the schoolyard back to the house. You may not know all of your neighbors, but at least people have to be aware that kids are going back and forth. Maybe we need to say to the community, “If you see something that is inappropriate, please call the police.” I mean, you have to say these things out loud, unfortunately. But we have to start doing it. L.A.’s big, but a street isn’t big, a neighborhood isn’t big, a schoolyard isn’t big.

Q: Do you see a need for more security?

A: Whatever it takes to keep the crime level down, and to educate people to be more tolerant of each other. If it’s increasing security, I would not be opposed to that. I know that in Lynwood the head of security implemented mandatory see-through backpacks. And my gut reaction was, “That’s pretty invasive. I want to buy my kids the kind of backpacks they want.” But the kids are not complaining about it. They’re very comfortable knowing that everybody’s backpack is free of a weapon. And they can go on that campus and they can concentrate on their studies.

Q: Do you think the schools do a good enough job of teaching tolerance?

A: The [Los Angeles Unified School District] does have a program. I haven’t really seen in depth how it’s working, but I wonder how many of the teachers are really implementing it and following through with it. You can have the best program in the world, but unless the messengers are getting out the message, it’s ineffective. And that’s one of our major concerns. LAUSD can stand up and say they’ve got a program, and that’s wonderful. But let’s talk about this program, and let’s see if it’s really working, and let’s do research on it. And statistics to see if there’s any follow-through.

Q: What about the role of the parents?

A: A lot of people will say it starts in the home. But there are a lot of people who say, “Fine, but there are no homes for these kids to have it start in, so now what do we do?” So the school is the place, generally speaking, where this child is going to be raised. And we’ve got to really understand that. The point is, we have a community of kids who are growing up without that parental supervision. And when I say “parental,” I mean that supervision of being taught right from wrong. And whether it’s in the home or it’s in the school, it has to happen. I think more responsibility is being put on the schools. That’s where your kids are.

Q: So you think teachers ought to take a greater role in the moral education of our children?

A: With 40 or 50 kids in the classroom, that’s real hard. That’s tremendous pressure. And then to throw one more thing at them? Now you’ve got to raise them? It would be wonderful to say, “OK, teachers, there are no homes, so you’re going to be the surrogate mothers, go for it. Go teach them.” Is that being realistic? Not at all. But ultimately I think that we all have to start thinking in terms of schools [being] where our kids are, and this is where they’re getting their values and their ideas. And this is where they’re starting their road to adulthood. What can we do? Maybe more counselors. Maybe that’s where some of the money that’s being allocated should go. And smaller classrooms.

Q: Many people cite the Internet, the media and the movie industry for our children’s behavior. Do we need to control them?

A: Everybody is aware that the Internet is a place that wasn’t there before, where kids can get into tremendous trouble. And kids are kids. They gravitate toward some of this stuff. The Internet, the violence in the movies, guns. Sure it would be great if it wasn’t out there. But it’s a fact of life. So now what are we going to do about it? I think we have to work cooperatively without attacking and finger-pointing. And I’d like to see us deal with out-of-control behavior before a child picks up a gun. We need to involve our children as part of an effort to make their community better. And I really do believe that if kids can see it that way, they’ll step up to the plate and help us.

“In my day, you were taught in the home that if you acted inappropriately there would be consequences. Kids don’t have consequences for their actions these days.”

” Our concerns range from the house to the schoolyard, from the schoolyard back to the house. . . . L.A.’s big, but a street isn’t big, a neighborhood isn’t big, a schoolyard isn’t big.”

” We need to involve our children as part of an effort to make their community better. And I really do believe that if kids can see it that way, they’ll step up to the plate and help us.”