‘I Want to Give Some of . . . Your Money Back’

Here are excerpts, provided by the Federal News Service, from the third presidential depate between Republican George W. Bush and Democrat Al Gore. Jim Lehrer of PBS was moderator. To see a complete transcript or video of the 90-minute debate, visit The Times Web site at https://www.latimes.com/debates. Text and video of the two previous Bush-Gore debates, and of the vice presidential debate between Republican Dick Cheney and Democrat Joseph I. Lieberman, also are available on the site.

Prescription Drugs

Q: . . . Are either of you concerned with finding some feasible way to lower the price of pharmaceutical drugs such as education on minimizing intake, revamp of the FDA process or streamlining the drug companies’ procedures instead of just finding more money to pay for them?

BUSH: Well, that’s a great question. I think one of the problems we have, particularly for seniors, is there’s no prescription drug coverage in Medicare, and therefore when they have to try to purchase drugs, they do so on their own. There’s no kind of collective bargaining, there’s no power of purchasing among seniors.

So I think Step One, to make sure prescription drugs [are] more affordable for seniors--and those are the folks who really rely upon prescription drugs a lot these days--is to reform the Medicare system, is to have prescription drugs as an integral part of Medicare once and for all.

The problem we have today is that--like the patients’ bill of rights, particularly with health care, there’s a lot of bickering in Washington, D.C. It’s kind of like a political issue as opposed to a people issue.

So what I want to do is I want to call upon Republicans and Democrats to forget all the arguing and finger-pointing, and come together and take care of our seniors with a prescription drug program that says we’ll pay for the poor seniors, we’ll help seniors with prescription drugs.

In the meantime, I think it’s important to have what’s called immediate helping hand, which is direct money to states so that seniors--poor seniors don’t have to choose between food and medicine. . . . I’m against price controls.

I think price controls would hurt our ability to continue important research and development. . . . Expediting drugs through the FDA makes sense, of course. Allowing the new bill that was passed in the Congress made sense, to allow for, you know, drugs that were sold overseas to come back . . . into the United States. That makes sense.

But the best thing to do is to reform Medicare.

GORE: All right, here we go again. Now look, if you want someone who will spend a lot of words describing a whole convoluted process and then end up supporting legislation that is supported by the big drug companies, this is your man. [He pointed at Bush.]

If you want someone who will fight for you and who will fight for the middle-class families and working men and women who are sick and tired of having their parents and grandparents pay higher prices for prescription drugs than anybody else, then I want to fight for you.

. . . Listen, for 24 years, I have never been afraid to take on the big drug companies. They do some great things. They discover great new cures, and that’s great. We want to--we want them to continue that.

But they are now spending more money on advertising and promotion--you see all these ads?--than they are on research and development. And they’re trying to artificially extend the monopoly patent protection so they can keep charging these very high prices.

I want to streamline the approval of the competing generic drugs and the new kinds of treatments that can compete with them so that we bring the price down for everybody.

Now, briefly, let me tell you how my prescription drug plan works. . . . I propose a real prescription drug benefit under Medicare for all seniors, all seniors. And here’s how it works. You pick your own doctor, and nobody can take that away from you.

The doctor chooses the prescription that you need, and nobody can overrule your doctor. You go to your own pharmacy, and then Medicare pays half the price. If you’re poor, they pay all of it. If you have extraordinarily high costs, then they pay all over $4,000 out of pocket. And I’ll bring new competition to bring the price down. And if you pass the big drug companies’ bill, nothing will happen.

Health Care

Q: . . . Would you be open to the idea of a national health care plan for everybody?

GORE: I think that we should move step by step toward universal health coverage, but I am not in favor of government doing it all. We’ve spent 65 years now on the development of a hybrid system--partly private, partly public.

And 85% of our people have health insurance, 15% don’t. That adds up to 44 million people. That is a national outrage. We have got to get health coverage for those who do not have it.

And we’ve got to improve the quality for those who do with a patients’ bill of rights that’s real and that works, the Dingell-Norwood bill. And we have got to fill in the gaps in coverage by finally bringing parity for the treatment of illness, because that’s been left out. We’ve got to deal with long-term care.

. . . I will make a commitment to bring health care coverage of high quality that is affordable to every single child in America within four years. And then we’ll fill other gaps by covering the parents of those children when the family is poor or up to 2 1/2 times the poverty rate. I want to give a tax credit for the purchase of individual health insurance plans.

I want to give small-business employers a tax credit, 25%, to encourage the providing of health insurance for the employees in small businesses. I want to give seniors who are--well--[laughs]--the near elderly. I don’t like that term, because I’m just about in that category. But those 55 to 65 ought to be able to buy into Medicare for premiums that are reasonable and fair and significantly below what they have to get now.

Now, we have a big difference on this, and you need to know the record here. Under Gov. Bush, Texas has sunk to be 50th out of 50 in the health insurance for their citizens. . . .

BUSH: I’m absolutely opposed to a national health care plan. I don’t want the federal government making decisions for consumers or for providers.

I remember what the administration tried to do in 1993. They tried to have a national health care plan, and fortunately it failed. I trust people; I don’t trust the federal government. It’s going to be one of the themes you hear tonight. I don’t want the federal government making decisions on behalf of everybody.

There is an issue with the uninsured--there sure is, and we’ve got uninsured people in my state. Ours is a big state, a fast-growing state. We share a common border with another nation. But we’re providing health care for our people.

One thing about insurance, that’s a Washington term. The question is, are people getting health care. And we’ve got a strong safety net, and there needs to be a safety net in America.

There needs to be more community health clinics where the poor can go get health care. We need a program for the uninsured--they’ve been talking about it in Washington, D.C.

The number of uninsured have now gone up for the past seven years. We need a $2,000 credit, rebate for people--working people who don’t have insurance so they can get in the marketplace and start purchasing insurance. We need to have--allow small businesses to write across--insurance across jurisdictional lines so small business can afford health care, small restaurants can afford health care. And so health care needs to be affordable and available.

. . . In the Medicare reform I talk about, it says if you’re a senior, you can stay in Medicare if you like it, and that’s fine. But we’re going to give you other choices to choose, if you want to do so, just like they do the federal employees.

The people who work in Washington, D.C., for the U.S. Congress or the United States Senate get a variety of choices to make in their lives, and that’s what we ought to do for all people in America.

Children and Parents

Q: How do you intend to not only hold the teachers and schools accountable [for children’s progress], but also hold parents accountable?

BUSH: Well, you know, it’s hard to make people love one another. [Chuckles.] I wish I knew the law, because I’d darn sure sign it. I wish I knew the law that said all of us should be good parents. One of the things the next president must do is to remind people that if we’re going to have a responsible period in America, that each of us must love our children with all our heart and all our soul.

I happen to believe strong accountability encourages parental involvement, though. I think when you measure and post results on the Internet or in the town newspapers, most parents say, “Wait a minute. My child’s school isn’t doing what I want it to do,” and therefore become involved in education.

I recognize there are some who just don’t seem to care. But there are a lot of parents who feel like everything is going well in their child’s school and all of a sudden they wake up and realize that, “Wait a minute. Standards aren’t being met.” That’s why I’m so strong for accountability.

I believe we ought to measure a lot--three, four, five, six, seven, eighth grade. . . . You can’t cure unless you know; you can’t--you can’t solve a problem unless you diagnose it.

. . . I also believe that we need to say to people that if you cannot meet standards, there has to be a consequence, instead of just--kind of the soft bigotry of low expectations, that there has to be a consequence. We can’t continue to shuffle children through school. . . .

GORE: Yeah, we have a huge difference between us on this question. . . .

I see a day in the United States of America where all of our public schools are considered excellent, world-class; where there are no failing schools; where the classrooms are small enough in size--number of students--so that the teacher can spend enough one-on-one time with each--with each student.

Now, that means recruiting new teachers for the public schools. It means, in my plan, hiring bonuses to get 100,000 new teachers in the public schools within the next four years.

. . . We need to give teachers the training and professional development that they need to--including paid time off to go visit the classroom of a master teacher and to pick up some new skills.

I want to give every middle-class family a $10,000-a-year tax deduction for college tuition, so that--so that middle-class families will always be able to send their kids on to college.

I want to work for universal preschool, because we know from all the studies that the youngsters learn--kids learn more in the first few years of life than anywhere else.

Now I said there was a contrast. Gov. Bush is for vouchers, and in his plan, he proposes to drain more money, more taxpayer money, out of the public schools for private school vouchers than all of the money that he proposes in his entire budget for public schools themselves, and only one in 20 students would be eligible for these vouchers, and they wouldn’t even pay the full tuition to private school. I think that’s a mistake.

I don’t think we should give up on the private [sic] schools and leave kids trapped in failing schools; I think we--I think we should make it the No. 1 priority to make our schools the best in the world, all of them.

LEHRER: Governor, what is your position on vouchers?

BUSH: . . . Vouchers are up to states. If you want to do a voucher program in Missouri, fine. See, I strongly believe in local control of schools. I’m a governor of a state, and I don’t like it when the federal government tells us what to do. I believe in local control of schools.

But here’s what I’ve said. I’ve said to the extent we spend federal money on disadvantaged children, we want the schools to show us whether or not the children are learning. What’s unreasonable about that? We expect there to be standards met, and we expect there to be measurement. And if we find success, we’ll praise it.

But when we find children trapped in schools that will not change and will not teach, instead of saying, “Oh, this is OK in America--just to shuffle poor kids through schools.” There has to be a consequence.

And the consequence is, that federal portion of federal money will go to the parent so the parent can go to a tutoring program or another public school or another private--or a private school.

LEHRER: . . . What’s the other side on that?

GORE: Well, the program that he’s proposing is not the one that he just described. Under your plan, Gov. Bush, states would be required to pay vouchers to students to match the vouchers that the federal government would put up. . . . The way it would happen is that under his plan, if a school was designated as failing, the kids would be trapped there for another three years, and then some of them would get federal vouchers, and the state would be forced to match that money.

Under my plan, if a school is failing, we work with the states to give them the authority and the resources to close down that school and reopen it right away with a new principal, a new faculty, a turnaround team of specialists who know what they’re doing. It’s based on the plan of Gov. [James B.] Hunt [Jr.] in North Carolina, and it works great.

Taxes

To a question on school spending, the candidates digressed into a dispute over their tax plans:

BUSH: When you total up all the federal spending he wants to do, it’s the largest increase in federal spending in years, and there’s just not going to be enough money.

I--I have been a governor of a big state. I’ve made education my No. 1 priority. That’s what governors ought to do, they ought to say this is the most important thing we do as a state.

The federal government puts about 6% of the money up; they put about, you know, 60% of the strings where you’ve got to fill out paperwork. I don’t know if you have to be a paperwork filler-outer, but most of it’s because of the federal government.

What I want to do is to send flexibility and authority to the local folks so you can choose what to do with the money. One size does not fit all. I’d worry about federalizing education if I were you. I believe strongly that the federal government can help; they need to fund Head Start.

We need to have accountability. The vice president’s plan does not have annual accountability--third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade. We need the demand on results.

. . . The federal government can be a part, but--but don’t fall prey to all this stuff about money here and money there, because education is really funded at the local level; 94% comes from the local level.

LEHRER: Vice President Gore, is the governor right when he says that you’re proposing the largest federal spending in years?

GORE: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I’m so glad that I have a chance to knock that down.

BUSH: [Laughs.]

GORE: Look the problem is that under Gov. Bush’s plan, $1.6-trillion tax cut, mostly to the wealthy, under his own budget numbers, he proposes spending more money for a tax cut just for the wealthiest 1% than all of the new money that he budgets for education, health care and national defense combined.

Now, under my plan, we will balance the budget every year. I’m not just saying this. I’m not just talking. I have helped to balance the budget for the first time in 30 years, pay down the debt. And, under my plan, in four years, as a percentage of our gross domestic product, federal spending will be the smallest that it has been in 50 years. . . . I will pay down the debt every single year until it is eliminated, early in the next decade.

. . . Now because the governor has all this money for a tax cut, mostly to the wealthy, there is no money left over, so schools get testing and lawsuit reform--

LEHRER: All right.

GORE: --and not much else.

LEHRER: Governor, the vice president says you’re wrong.

BUSH: Well, he’s wrong. [Chuckles.] Just add up all the numbers; it’s three times bigger than what President Clinton proposed. . . .

GORE: That’s in an ad, Jim, that was knocked down by the journalists who analyzed the ad and said it was misleading

BUSH: . . . Forget the journalists. He proposed more than Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis combined. This is a big spender--he is--and he ought to be proud of it. It’s part of his record. We just have a different philosophy.

Let me talk about tax relief. If you pay taxes, you ought to get tax relief. The vice president believes that only the right people ought to get tax relief. I don’t think that’s the role of the president--to pick--”You’re right, and you’re not right.” I think if you’re going to have tax relief, everybody ought to get it. And, therefore, wealthy people are going to get it.

. . . What I’ve done is set priorities and funded them, and there’s extra money. And I believe the people who pay the bills ought to--ought to get some money back. It’s a difference of opinion. He wants to grow the government, and I trust you with your own money . . . .

LEHRER: . . . What do you say specifically to what the vice president has said tonight . . . that your tax cut benefits the top 1% of the wealthiest Americans. . . .

BUSH: Of course it does. If you pay taxes, you’re going to get a benefit. . . .

GORE: Look, this isn’t about Gov. Bush, it’s not about me. It is about you, and I want to come back to something I said before. If you want somebody who believes that we were better off eight years ago than we are now, and that we ought to go back to the kind of policies that we had back then, emphasizing tax cuts mainly for the wealthy, here is your man. [He directed his remarks at Bush.]

If you want somebody who will fight for you and who will fight to have middle-class tax cuts, then I am your man. I want to be.

. . . If everyone here in this audience was dead on in the middle of the middle class, then the tax cuts for every single one of you all added up would be less than the tax cut his plan would give to just one member of that top wealthiest 1%.

Now, you judge for yourselves whether or not that’s fair.

BUSH: . . . Fifty million Americans get no tax relief under his plan--

GORE: That’s not right.

Gun Control

Q: [Directed at Bush] We’d like to know why you object to the Brady handgun bill, if you do object to it, because on a recent TV ad, it showed that the National Rifle Assn. says if you are elected, that they will be working out of your office.

BUSH: . . . Well, I don’t think I ran the ad. I think somebody who doesn’t want me to be president might have run that ad. . . .

Here’s what I believe, sir. I believe law-abiding citizens ought to be allowed to protect themselves and their families. I believe that we ought to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn’t have them. That’s why I’m for instant background checks at gun shows. I’m for trigger locks. I think that makes sense. Matter of fact, we distributed free trigger locks in the state of Texas, so that people can get them and put them on their guns, to make their guns more safe. I think we ought to raise the age at which juveniles can have a gun.

But I also believe strongly that we need to enforce laws on the books, that the best way to make sure that we keep our society safe and secure is to hold people accountable for--for breaking the law. If we catch somebody illegally selling a gun, there needs to be a consequence.

If we keep--somebody, you know, illegally using a gun, there needs to be a consequence, enforcement of the law. And the federal government can help. . . .

GORE: Well, . . . it was not one of my ads, either, governor, but I am familiar with the statement, and it was made by one of the top-ranking officials of that organization.

Let me tell you my position. I think that some common-sense gun safety measures are certainly needed with the flood of cheap handguns that have sometimes been working their way into the hands of the wrong people. But all of my proposals are focused on that problem, gun safety.

None of my proposals would have any effect on hunters or sportsmen or people who use rifles. They are aimed at the real problem--let’s make our schools safe, let’s make our neighborhoods safe, let’s have a three-day waiting period, a cooling-off so we can have a background check to make sure that criminals and people who really shouldn’t have guns that don’t get them.

But I’d like to use my remaining time on this exchange, Jim, to respond to an exchange that took place just a moment ago because a couple of times the governor has said that I am for a bigger government.

Governor, I’m not. And let me tell you what the record shows.

For the last eight years, I have had the challenge of running the streamlining program called Reinventing Government. And if there are any federal employees in this group, you know what that means.

The federal government has been reduced in size by more than 300,000 people, and it’s now the smallest number that we have had since--the smallest in size since John Kennedy’s administration.

During the last five years, Texas’ government has gone up in size. The federal government has gone down. Texas’ government has gone up.

Now, my plan for the future, I see a time when we have smaller, smarter government where you don’t have to wait in line because you can get services online--cheaper, better, faster. We can do that.

Sex and Violence

To a question about what a president can do to curb Hollywood sex and violence:

BUSH: I appreciate that question. Laura and I are proud parents of teenage girls, twin daughters, and I know what you’re saying. Government ought to stand on the side of parents. Parents are teaching their children right from wrong and the message oftentimes gets undermined by the popular culture.

You bet there’s things that government can do. We can work with the entertainment industry to provide family hour. We can have filters on Internets where public money is spent; there ought to be filters in public libraries and filter in public schools so if kids get on the Internet, there’s not going to be pornography or violence coming in.

I think we ought to have character education in our schools. I know that doesn’t directly talk about Hollywood, but it does reinforce the values you’re teaching.

I would greatly expand character education funding so that public schools will teach children values, values which have stood the test of time.

. . . I don’t support censorship. But I do believe that we ought to talk plainly to the Hollywood moguls and people who produce this stuff and explain the consequences. I think we need to have rating systems that are clear.

And I happen to like the idea of having technology for the TV, easy for parents to use, so you can tune out these programs that you don’t want in your house. But I’m going to remind moms and dads, the best weapon is the off/on button and paying attention to your children, and eating dinner with them . . .

GORE: I care a lot about this. It’s not just movies--television, video games, music, the Internet. Parents now feel like you have to compete with the mass culture in order to raise your kids with the values that you want them to have.

Tipper and I have four children. . . . I don’t want to embarrass our oldest daughter. . . . When she was little, she brought a record home that had some awful lyrics in it. And Tipper hit the ceiling. And that launched a campaign to try to get the record companies to put ratings that--warning labels for parents. And I’m so proud of what she accomplished in getting them on there.

I’ve been involved myself in negotiating and helping to move along the negotiations with the Internet service providers to get a parents’ protection page every time 95% of the pages come up, and a feature that allows parents to automatically check, with one click, what sites your kids have visited lately. . . .

And recently the Federal Trade Commission pointed out that some of these entertainment companies have warned parents that the material is inappropriate for children, and then they’ve turned around, behind the backs of the parents, and advertised that same adult material directly to children. That is an outrage.

Joe Lieberman and I gave them six months to clean up their act. And if they don’t do it, we’re going to ask for tougher authority on--in the hands of the FTC on the false and deceptive advertising.

Diversity

Q: How will your administration address diversity, inclusiveness, and what role will affirmative action play in your overall plan?

BUSH: I’ve had a record of bringing people from all walks of life into my administration, and my administration is better off for it in Texas. I’m going to find people that want to serve their country, but I want a diverse administration. I think it’s important.

I’ve worked hard in the state of Texas to make sure our institutions are--reflect the state, with good, smart policy, policy that rejects quotas. I don’t like quotas, quotas tend to pit one group of people against another, quotas are bad for America, it’s not the way America is all about--but policies that give people a helping hand so they can help themselves.

For example, in our state of Texas, I’ve worked with the Legislature, both Republicans and Democrats, to pass a law that said if you come in the top 10% of your high school class, you’re automatically admitted to one of our--one of our higher institutions--higher institutions of learning--college.

And as a result, our universities are now more diverse. It was a smart thing to do, what I called it--I labeled it “affirmative access.”

I think the contracting business in government can help--not with quotas, but help meet a goal of ownership of small businesses, for example. The contracts need to be smaller. The agencies need to be--you know, need to recruit and to work hard to find people to bid on the state contracts.

I think we can do that in a way that represents what America is all about, which is equal opportunity, and an opportunity for people to realize their potential.

So, to answer your question, I support--I guess the way to put it is--affirmative access. And I’ll have an administration that will make you proud.

LEHRER: Vice President Gore?

GORE: I believe in this goal and this effort with all my heart. I believe that our future as a nation depends upon whether or not we can break down these barriers that have been used to pit group against group, and bring our people together.

How do you do it? Well, you establish respect for differences. You don’t ignore differences. It’s all too easy for somebody in the majority in the population to say, “Ah, we’re just all--all the same,” without an understanding of the different life experience that you’ve had, that others have had.

Once you have that understanding and mutual respect, then we can transcend the differences and embrace the highest common denominator of the American spirit.

I don’t know what “affirmative access” means. I do know what “affirmative action” means. I know that the governor is against it, and I know that I’m for it.

Death Penalty

Q: [Directed at Bush] In one of the last debates held, the subject of capital punishment came up. And in your response to the question, you seemed to overly enjoy--as a matter of fact, [be] proud--that Texas led the nation in execution of prisoners. Sir, did I misread your response? And are you really, really proud of the fact that Texas is No. 1 in executions?

BUSH: No, I’m not proud of that. The death penalty is very serious business, Leo. It’s an issue that good people obviously disagree on.

I take my job seriously. And if you think I was proud of it, I think you misread me; I do. I was sworn to uphold the laws of my state. During the course of the campaign in 1994, I was asked, “Do you support the death penalty?” I said I did, if administered fairly and justly, because I believe it saves lives. . . . I do. I think if it’s administered swiftly, justly and fairly, it saves lives.

One of the things that happens when you’re a governor--at least--oftentimes you have to make tough decisions, and you can’t let public persuasion sway you because the job is to enforce the law, and that’s what I did, sir.

There have been some tough cases come across my desk. Some of the hardest moments since I’ve been the governor of the state of Texas is to deal with those cases.

But my job is to ask two questions, sir: Is the person guilty of the crime, and did the person have full access to the courts of law? And I can tell you, looking at you right now, in all cases those answers were affirmative.

I’m not proud of any record. I’m proud of the fact that violent crime is down in the state of Texas. I’m proud of the fact that--that we hold people accountable.

But I’m not proud of any record, sir; I’m not.

GORE: I support the death penalty. I think that it has to be administered not only fairly, with attention to things like DNA evidence, which I think should be used in all capital cases, but also with very careful attention. If, for example, somebody confesses to the crime and somebody is waiting on death row, there has to be alertness too, to say, hey, wait a minute, have we got the wrong guy?

If the wrong guy is put to death, then that’s a double tragedy. Not only has an innocent person been executed, but the real perpetrator of the crime has not been held accountable for it, and in some cases, may be still at large. But I support the death penalty in the most heinous cases.

LEHRER: Do both of you believe that the death penalty actually deters crime?

BUSH: I do. That’s the only reason to be for it. . . . I don’t think you should support the death penalty to seek revenge. I don’t think that’s right. I think the reason to support the death penalty is because it saves other people’s lives.

LEHRER: Vice President Gore?

GORE: I think it is a deterrence. I know that’s a controversial view, but I do believe it’s a deterrence.

Keeping Promises

To a question from a sixth-grade class, whose teacher asked if the candidates would keep their promises if elected:

GORE: Yes. [Laughter.]

I am a person who keeps promises, and you know, we’ve heard a lot about--from the governor about not much being done in the last eight years, as if the promises that I made eight years ago have not been kept.

I think the record shows otherwise. We have gone from the biggest deficits eight years ago to the biggest surpluses in history today.

Instead of high unemployment, we now have the lowest African American unemployment, the lowest Latino unemployment ever measured, 22 million new jobs, very low unemployment nationally. Instead of ballooning the debt and multiplying it four times over, we have seen the debt actually begun to be paid down.

Here are some promises that I’ll make to you now: I will balance the budget every year. I will pay down the debt every year. I will give middle-class Americans tax cuts, meaningful ones. And I will invest in education, health care, protecting the environment and retirement security.

We’ve both made promises in this campaign. I promise you I will keep mine.

Let me tell you about one of the governor’s.

BUSH: [Laughs.]

GORE: He has promised a trillion dollars out of the Social Security Trust Fund for young working adults to invest and save on their own. But he’s promised seniors that their Social Security benefits will not be cut. And he’s promised the same trillion dollars to them.

So, this is the Show Me state. Reminds me of the line from the movie, “Show me the money.” Which one of those promises will you keep, and which will you break, governor?

LEHRER: Gov. Bush?

BUSH: Thank you for your question. [Laughter.] There’s an old high school debating trick, which is to answer something and then attack your opponent at the end.

You asked about promises. You were promised that Medicare would be reformed and that Social Security would be reformed. You were promised a middle-class tax cut in 1992. It didn’t happen.

There’s too much bitterness in Washington, there’s too much wrangling. It’s time to have a fresh start. One of the reasons I was successful as the governor of Texas is because I didn’t try to be all things to all people.

When I campaigned in a race, a lot of folks didn’t think I could win--including, by the way, my mother--[laughter]--I said I’d do four things: tort reform, education reform, welfare reform and juvenile justice reform.

And I won, and I had the will of the people in my state behind me, and then I brought folks together to get it done. And that’s what we need, I think, in this election. To me, that’s what it’s all about.

I know--listen, there’s--I’m sure your sixth-grade kids are listening--”These guys will say anything to get elected.” But there’s a record, and that’s what I hope people look at.

And one of my promises, there’s going to be Social Security reform.

GORE: [Sighs.]

BUSH: . . . And you bet, we need to take a trillion dollars out of that $2.4-trillion surplus--and remember, Social Security revenue exceeds expenses up until 2015. People are going to get paid.

But if you’re a younger worker, if you’re younger, you better hope this country thinks different, otherwise you’re going to be faced with huge payroll taxes or reduced benefits.

And you bet, we’re going to take a trillion dollars of your own money and let you invest it under safe guidelines to get a better rate of return on the money than the paltry 2% that the federal government gets for you today. That’s one of my promises.

But it’s going to require people to bring both Republicans and Democrats together to get it done. That’s what it requires. There was a chance to get this done; there was a bipartisan approach, but it’s been rejected. I’m going to bring them together.

LEHRER: . . . To both of you on this subject, there are other questions that also go to this skepticism not necessarily about you, but all people in politics. . . . Why is that?

GORE: Well, first of all, Jim, I’d like to--I’d like to respond to what the governor just said--

BUSH: [Chuckles.]

GORE: --because the trillion dollars that has been promised to young people has also been promised to older people. And you cannot keep both promises.

If you’re in your mid-40s, under the governor’s plan, Social Security will be bankrupt by the time you retire, if he takes it out of the Social Security trust fund. Under my plan, it will be--its solvency will be extended until you’re 100. Now that is the difference.

And the governor may not want to answer that question; he may want to call it a high school debating trick. But let me tell you this:

This election is not about debating tricks; it is about your future. The reason Social Security--he says it gets 2%. You know, it’s not a bank account; it--that just pays back money that’s invested; it is also used to give your mothers and fathers the Social Security checks that they live on. If you take a trillion dollars out of that Social Security trust fund . . . how are the checks going to be--how are you going to keep faith with the seniors?

BUSH: . . . Well, can I answer that?

LEHRER: Sure.

BUSH: One reason people are skeptical is because people don’t answer the questions they’ve been asked. [Chuckles.]

The trillion dollars comes out of the surplus, so that can you invest some of your own money. There’s just a difference of opinion. I want workers to have their own assets. It’s who you trust, government or people.

Closing Statements

GORE: Thank you. Thank you very much, Jim. And I’ll begin by answering your questions. I--your last question.

I believe that a lot of people are skeptical about people in politics today because we have seen a time of great challenge for our country since the assassination of our best leaders in the ‘60s, since the Vietnam War, since Watergate, and because we need campaign finance reform.

I’d like to tell you something about me. I keep my word.

I have kept the faith. I kept the faith with my country. I volunteered for the Army. I served in Vietnam. I kept the faith with my family. Tipper and I have been married for 30 years. We have devoted ourselves to our children and, now, our nearly 1 1/2-year-old grandson. I have kept the faith with our country. Nine times I have raised my hand to take an oath to the Constitution, and I have never violated that oath.

I have not spent the last quarter-century in pursuit of personal wealth. I have spent the last quarter-century fighting for middle-class working men and women in the United States of America. I believe very deeply that you have to be willing to stand up and fight, no matter what powerful forces might be on the other side.

If you want somebody who is willing to fight for you, I am asking for your support and your vote and, yes, your confidence, and your willingness to believe that we can do the right thing in America and be the better for it.

We’ve made some progress during the last eight years. We have seen the strongest economy in the history of the United States, lower crime rates for eight years in a row, the highest private home ownership ever. But I’ll make you one promise here--you ain’t seen nothin’ yet, and I will keep that promise.

BUSH: Well, Jim, I want to thank you and thank the folks here at Washington University, and vice president, I appreciate the chance to have a good, honest dialogue about our differences of opinion. And I think, after three debates, the good people of this country understand there is a difference of opinion.

It’s the difference between big federal government and somebody who’s coming from outside of Washington who will trust individuals.

I’ve got an agenda that I want to get done for the country. It’s an agenda that says we’re going to reform Medicare to make sure seniors have got prescription drugs and to give seniors different options from which they can choose.

It’s an agenda that says we’re going to listen to the young voices in Social Security and say we’re going to think differently about making sure we have a system, but also fulfill the promise to the seniors in America.

A promise made will be a promise kept, should I be fortunate enough to become your president.

I’m going to rebuild the military to keep the peace. I want to make sure the public school system in America fulfills its promise so that no child--not one child--is left behind. And after setting priorities, I want to give some of the--some of your money back.

You see, I don’t think the surplus is the government’s money, I think it’s the people’s money. I don’t think the surplus exists because of the ingenuity and hard work of the federal government. I think it exists because of the ingenuity and hard work of the American people, and you ought to have some of this surplus so you can save and dream and build.

I look forward to the final weeks of this campaign. I’m asking for your vote. For those of you for me, thanks for your help. For those of you for my opponent, please only vote once. [Laughter.]

But for those who have not made up their mind, I’d like to conclude by this promise: Should I be fortunate enough to become your president, when I put my hand on the Bible, I will swear to not only uphold the laws of the land, but I will also swear to uphold the honor and the dignity of the office to which I have been elected, so help me God.

Thank you very much.