Officials Get Earful at Public Meetings

Loudmouths and bores. Those are two of the printable words used to describe those in-your-face busybodies who march before the Burbank City Council each week to unload their opinions on everything from the quality of trash pickup to council members’ ethnic backgrounds.

Problem is, sometimes so many people--often the same haranguing bunch--want to express themselves during the televised meetings that the council doesn’t get down to business until after 10 p.m., three hours after the sessions begin. In response, gab-weary council members are considering ways to rein in the pontificators, including restricting individuals to three minutes of podium time instead of five.

“We have very nonproductive oral communications that take up a large part of the meetings,” said Councilman Dave Golonski, a frequent target of speakers’ barbs. “We have a constant group of speakers who each talk for five minutes every week about a lot of repetitive things.”

And Burbank isn’t alone. Up and down the state, councils, school boards and county supervisors are trying to get long-winded constituents to button it. Political scientists have even coined a name for these verbally aggressive types--CAVE people, or Citizens Against Virtually Everything.

Getting them away from the microphone can be a tricky legal proposition. Local governments have struggled to navigate the fine line between protecting free speech and conducting the public’s business in a timely manner. Whether viewed as government watchdogs or tart-tongued nuisances, garrulous speakers enjoy the same 1st Amendment rights as anyone.

Marathon meetings in Costa Mesa recently prompted council members to resurrect a long-dormant policy that allows them to end their meetings by midnight, even if agenda items remain.

Ventura County supervisors adopted a policy last year that holds speakers to a total of five minutes per meeting, regardless of how many topics they want to address.

And after being arrested 39 times for disrupting San Bernardino County Board of Supervisors meetings, local gadfly Bob Nelson last year was sentenced to 30 days in jail and three years’ probation because he wouldn’t stop talking. Nelson, 63, who continues to speak at meetings, occasionally has been asked to relinquish the podium, but has not been arrested again, officials said.

In Burbank, one middle-aged woman with a staccato delivery, is a regular on Tuesday nights, calling council members “racists” and “ignorant boneheads.” Another has presented Golonski with a chunk of Limburger cheese, saying the councilman’s positions “stink.” One guy, who ran out of material before his five minutes were up but clung to the podium anyway, demanded other speakers be bound and gagged in the back of the room.

The public speaking issue comes up from time to time when boards or councils lose control of their meetings, said Kent Pollock, executive director of the California First Amendment Coalition, a nonprofit organization.

“The council has a right to apply rules as long as they don’t discriminate,” Pollock said. “But they should know that the 1st Amendment was implemented to protect unpopular speech, not just popular speech.”

The Santa Clarita City Council found that out in 1998, when a local activist sued the city for violating his rights after he verbally attacked a council member and was physically removed from the podium.

In an out-of-court settlement, the city agreed to allow citizens to speak without interruption for three minutes, regardless of their message.

Under California’s Brown Act, people may address a public panel on any matter within its jurisdiction. The local government can determine how long and when during the meeting they may speak. Comments on a specific agenda item, however, must be heard before it comes to a vote.

The Los Angeles City Council hears comments on items not on the agenda at the end of its thrice-weekly meetings, which begin at 10 a.m. and last two or three hours. While comments are often forceful, they seldom become so disruptive as to require the speaker’s ejection, said Helen Ginsburg of the city clerk’s office.

“If they become abusive and personal in their attacks on a member of the council, the chair will ask them to refrain,” Ginsburg said. “If it continues, we have two sergeants-at-arms here who have been known to escort people out.”

At recent Burbank meetings, some speakers have hurled vulgarities and racial and religious slurs at the council.

“I believe in their right to call us ‘blockheads,’ but our meetings have gotten particularly hateful,” said City Manager Robert “Bud” Ovrom, who compared the sessions to the “Jerry Springer” show.

Council regular Mike Nolan, who says he’s been attending meetings since childhood, winces at some of the comments made by other speakers. But, he said, he wouldn’t want to see the time allotted for oral communications reduced.

“If [the council] thinks shortening the time will stop these kind of comments, they’re wrong,” Nolan said. “People will say what they think even if they only have five seconds.”

The council is scheduled to review recommendations later this month to reduce the speakers’ time or possibly order the TV cameras off when they take the podium.

“Do people play to television? Sure,” Pollock said. “Do council members play to television? What’s good for one side is good for the other. Democracy isn’t simple. It’s grand, but it ain’t simple.”