Therapists Use Bible and Psychology on Talk Show : Radio: ‘Journey of the Heart’ joins the recent and controversial movement that brings together Freud and the Scriptures.

In many regards, “Journey of the Heart” is like other radio psychology shows. Peter Robbins and Kevin Downing, the hosts, begin each program by discussing topics such as depression, child abuse and alcoholism. After that, they take calls from listeners.

But Robbins and Downing differ fundamentally from broadcast therapists such as KABC’s David Viscott or KFI’s Barbara de Angelis. The two men discuss psychological problems in terms of Freud and the Bible. Halfway through a recent show, Robbins states that child abuse is Satan’s strategy to keep youngsters from coming to know the Lord.

“We try to blend the art of psychology with the philosophy of Christianity,” said Robbins, an ordained minister with a Ph.D. in psychology from Cambridge Graduate School of Psychology in Los Angeles. “There are plenty of tools of psychology that are consistent with the Scriptures.”

Not everyone in the Christian community agrees. “Journey of the Heart,” which airs from 5 to 6 p.m. every Sunday on KKLA (99.5-FM), is the latest in a recent spate of local and nationally syndicated radio shows that deal in Christian psychology. Many Christians accept a judicious mix of behavioral science and Scripture, but fundamentalists and others equate psychology with a wrongful attempt by man to assume the duties of God.

“It’s a long debate going back to the days of Freud and Jung,” said Mary Garascia, an assistant professor of theology at Loyola Marymount University. “The conservative theologians find the use of psychology obnoxious. They see it as being much too much anthropomorphic.”

Yet call-in psychology shows have met growing acceptance on Christian radio over the last five years, according to National Religious Broadcasters, a New Jersey-based trade association. KKLA, a Christian station in North Hollywood, carries five such shows, including the well-known “Minirth-Meier Clinic,” which is syndicated to hundreds of stations nationwide.

Downing, a licensed marriage and family counselor, says Christian therapy--Jung delivered with a religious twist--differs in important ways from secular counseling. A Christian therapist will advise a married couple to separate only if the relationship is abusive or if divorce appears unavoidable. A Christian therapist will likely suggest prayer to accompany behavior modification.

During a program on “Sexual Addiction: The Unquenchable Lust,” Downing told listeners, “Through all the shame and through all the isolation, Christ really loves the person who is in this addictive process. He’s not put off by it. He’s not embarrassed by it.”

“It doesn’t blow the Lord away,” Robbins said.

Later in the show, a woman called to say that she was trying to end a lesbian affair. “I know it’s wrong because God forbids that kind of relationship,” she said.

“I’m glad you see that,” Downing said.

“This is a real tough area,” Robbins said. “We deal with a lot of people who are homosexuals and want to restrain from those behaviors because of their Christian beliefs. I would really encourage you to get in with” a therapist “who works with people who have your kinds of struggles.”

Robbins and Downing asked the woman about her past. She said she’d been molested by her mother’s boyfriend many years ago and has since had a series of unsatisfying relationships with men. The therapists repeated that she should seek counseling.

“We’d like to thank you for your call,” Robbins said. “And we’ll be praying for you.”

Robbins began doing such work at his father-in-law’s La Habra church. In 1983, he and Downing opened a nonprofit counseling service in Diamond Bar. They saw a need that was going unmet in the Christian community.

“I went to seminary, and I know that the training for pastoral counseling is minimal,” Robbins said. “If you have a pastor who is talking to a lady with an eating disorder, it’s very unlikely that eating disorders were handled in seminary training.”

There was, and still is, opposition to what Robbins and Downing do.

“Some ministers are afraid that we are bringing a philosophy that undermines the church,” Robbins said. “They tell their people, ‘well, you just have to pray.’ ”

“Some ministers refer their people to us with great joy because they realize that their training is inadequate.”

Robbins and Downing met with KKLA management last year to talk about doing a weekly show. The station decided to add the Diamond Bar therapists to its line-up and “Journey of the Heart” has drawn numerous calls each week from listeners.

“They add a different flavor--a little more pastoral, not just clinical counseling,” said station manager Dennis Worden of Robbins and Downing. “They are able to share the Gospel as well as doing the psychological work at hand.”